Which One of These Quilts Would You Recommend?

[Lowell k]

Location: Sierras, 8-12k altitude, temperature range 20 – 40 degrees, 7 days, I run cold, will be sleeping on an Xtherm, using a tarp, expect to sleep in my down puffy and warm pants if needed. Also, I have never used a quilt, if that is an issue.

Option 1 – EE Convert 20 degree, 850 fill power, fill weight 20 oz., total weight 27 oz.

Option 2 – FF Flicker YF 20 degree, 900 fill power, fill weight 15 oz., total weight 27 oz.

Option 3 – WM Astralite 26 degree, 850 fill power, fill weight 10.5 oz, total weight 17 oz.

I am reading that the temperature ratings on quilts are not accurate, so I don’t know how much to prioritize these ratings. Also, I don’t understand how option 1 has 2x the fill weight of option 3 but the temperature rating of option 3 is just 6 degrees higher than option 1.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Lowell

[Matthew / BPL]

Tangential answer but I’ve spent 25 or 30 June/July/Aug nights in the Sierras in a 20° Hammock Gear Burrow with a sewn footbox. It’s made from Argon 90 and 850 fill. Total weight is 22.5 ounces and I have never once been cold on my XLite Women’s pad but I do sleep warm.

[Bob Fink]

The pad plays a big role in your overall warmth using a quilt.  I used a 20 deg F Thermorest Vesper on a September  JMT trip.  We saw many 20 to 30 deg F nights which was beyond the capabilities of a 20 deg F quilt though at the time I was using a Big Agnes AXL Insulated Pad with an R value of ~3.25 not the 6.9 of Xtherm, which is my current pad.  We slept in our puffy, pants and slipped our feet in our rain jackets.   That hike was the first time I put a quilt to an extended temperature test and they are slightly colder than a sleeping bag.

If you sleep cold, I would recommend you review the 10 deg F rated quilts for comparison.  As I believe for comfort, you should be rated below your expected temperatures based on experience.  If these temperatures are what you typically see, I would recommend a warmer quilt as it will provide greater comfort as the quilt insulation degrades over time.  I also think one should have a bit of fall back margin because if clothing gets wet your last line of defense for hypothermia is you sleep system.   I recently purchased a 10 deg F Zpacks quilt as I often see similar temperatures similar to what you are referencing here in Utah/Wyoming mountains.  It has similar rates compared to the quilts you reference.  One key variable is the fabric you choose for the quilt relative to the overall weight.   I plan on using the 10 deg F quilt when temps are 32 and below at night and use the older 20 deg F quilt when temperatures are warmer.

[Marcus]

I just sold a Hammock Gear Econ Burrow (top quilt), regular length (74″) wide width (55″) and their 20* has 16oz of 800fp normally, and I added 2oz over stuff so mine had 18oz total down. I was toasty warm at 25* with only 150 merino base layers. (I am replacing the 20D Econ with the Premium, so was happy enough with them to re-buy the exact quilt in 10D)

I see that the standard Enigma HE has 15.5oz down which is pretty much the same as HG’s 16oz. Based on that i would estimate the Convert will be comfort rated at 25*ish. The Flicker is probably comfort rated at 28ish, and the WM 20* rating is a complete lie, probably comfortable at 33* with only 10oz. For comparison, the HG 40* quilt has 8.3oz 850fp so 32-35* comfort range for the WM seems reasonable. Personally I think all quilts are under filled with the exception of Gryphon Gear which has 80% overstuff, which might be a tad excessive. 50% seems about right in my experience. 30% seems insufficient.  any less than 30% overstuff is a joke.

What I learned from my experience is that fill volume is the most important characteristic of any down garment. Just take Fill power X Fill weight and that will give you a very good judge of total warmth. Compare the fill volume of bags you are familiar with to the fill volume of bags you’re considering. That will give you a pretty objective measure of their warmth.

Based on my HG experience, I had 14,400 theoretical cubic inches of down in my 20* overstuffed burrow, and I think that number is about right for a comfort rating of 20*. Any less than that and you’re getting into the worthless ratings of “transition” or “Extreme/Limit”. The non-comfort ratings are worthless IMO.

As for the Thermarest Vesper mentioned above, Thermarest publishes worthless Limit/Survival temps. If you read the fine print the comfort rating for the vesper 20 is actually 32*. Again, ratings mean nothing. Fill volume does not lie.

Last, I wanted to try a zpacks quilt and ordered a solo quilt 20, knowing that it was the equivalent fill to the Hammock Gear 30. I tried it out at home and found it very cold because it lacks a draft collar (which my HG’s have). I could feel a noticeable draft of cold air penetrate in the channels between the chambers. I would highly recommend a quilt with a draft collar as my limited experience with non-DC quilts indicates you lose a ton of warmth around your neck or will need it cinched rather tight to prevent cold drafts. I’ll never try another quilt without a draft collar.

 

Here’s my quilt comparison I used when considering new quilts for reference. If you want the excel file PM me and I can send it to you.

[Brad W]

If you run cold, I wouldn’t use the listed rating-unless it’s specified as comfort-as your basis. I know EE rating was a bit inflated in years past, not sure if that’s been changed.

[Marcus]

EE did increase their standard fill a couple years ago. Their original quilts were known to be cold and you needed to temp-down at least 10* for comfort. Their recent quilts line up more or less with HG, and HG is nearly comfort rated at stock fill, and with a tad overfill are completely comfort rated.

Either way, if you can have the option of adding 2-3oz overstuff to your quilt, that’s the way to go to ensure comfort and longevity.

[John Vance]

I sleep warm in the astralite on an xtherm in lightweight base layers and wind shirt along with a down balaclava to mid 20’s.  I don’t sleep warm or cold by my guesstimate, but I’ve shivered all night in a solid 10f bag at 40f, and roasted in a 30f bag at 30f.    So many variables go into how comfortable you feel sleeping at different times, places, and temps.  I do, like you, sleep on an xtherm year round and it makes a huge difference for me regardless of the bag or quilt.

[Rex Sanders]

The temperature ratings of some quilt makers seem much more trustworthy than others. But if you sleep cold, and want to be comfortable at 20 F, aim for a quilt rated 10 F or lower.

Michael Glavin at Zenbivy has given up on standardized temperature rating tests. If you can, pay attention to loft and other factors (see below). Fill weight is a poor proxy for loft because bad design can compromise good down, but too little fill weight x fill power is not good.

As others said, a warm enough sleeping pad is vital. An R 6.9 Xtherm is more than warm enough, but won’t boost the comfort of a not-warm-enough quilt.

Other factors that can make a quilt feel colder or warmer (in no particular order):
– Head insulation. More is better.
– Draft collar. Bigger is better up to a limit.
– Quilt width. Wider is better, due to tossing and turning at night.
– Foot closure. Some are better at keeping cold air out than others. Sewn footboxes don’t have that problem, but tradeoffs.
– Pad straps, which often come down to personal preferences on adjustability versus fiddle factor versus thrashing. Much bigger impact below freezing. Always attach the quilt above the pad, not below.

Plus the usual factors that are not quilt-specific:
– Shelter from the wind. If you are tarp camping, even more important to find wind-sheltered sites, and maybe stake the windward edge of the tarp close to the ground. But don’t be surprised when the wind changes direction.
– Shelter from the cold night sky. Camping under trees or next to bushes can make a big difference.
– Sleeping in low spots like meadows or near lakes and streams, where cold moist air settles. A short distance up the valley sides can make a big difference.
– Eat and drink before going to bed.
– Warm up before going to bed, even if you need to do jumping jacks.

Down puffy and pants can help a lot, especially if the puffy has a good hood. If you rarely expect low twenties, a 20 F quilt plus puffies on the coldest nights might work for you.

Hope this helps.

— Rex

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