What did I do wrong?-Gear Choices Critique

[Justin W]

So that’s how we find the alien lizard people; give them the old sweat test!

Dang, I should have thought of that earlier. (Up until now, I’ve just been using their cold, dead eyes as clues, but hard to differentiate that from your garden variety human psychopath…)

[David D]

Yesterday I did a 30km very hard and fast (for me at least) hike @ ~ -5C, and used Brynje->Lifa->wind resistant but very breathable nylon runners top->Dooy

For the first few hours my skin stayed dry because of the Brynje/Lifa, with sweat collecting in the nylon top but I stayed warm and dry.   Then wet set snow started and overloaded the Dooy making me bone shaking cold by the end so that there was no way for me to safely stop or slow down.  It took me an hour at home to get my core comfortable again and this would have been a big problem in the field.

Is there a top breathable enough and water repellant enough to work in those conditions?  Nothing I’ve heard of.  I should have brought my light rain jacket with its big pit zips, and that would have let me slow way down.

[Bill Budney]

Is there a top breathable enough and water repellent enough to work in those conditions?

I think it depends on the specifics of your snow. I’ve never had snow penetrate my Ferrosi. Heavy rain does. For sure the Ferrosi is well more robust than a Dooy — to the point that they are nearly two distinct classes of garment.

Another thing to consider is warmth under your shell, for two reasons:

1) Your main complaint was cold. -5C sounds like the edge of the performance envelope for Lifa+Dooy under good conditions, and clearly it was insufficient when also wet.

2) Warmer insulation means that your jacket can be cooler, so maybe wouldn’t melt snow as quickly.

I would think that another layer under the shell, or perhaps your Houdini over the Dooy in wet snow, might be worth a try.

I mean, the Houdini might be sweaty, but at least you wouldn’t be so cold.

Even a fishing shirt between Lifa and Dooy might be enough to keep you both warmer and dryer.

[David D]

Thanks for the ideas but I was warm and dry until the snow.  Heavier insulation would have made me  sweat.  I always go as warm as possible without getting wet from sweat.

My Houdini would make me wet from sweat because of it’s poor breathability and again as well from the snow, it gets overloaded in precipitation easily.

So it comes down to slowing down and then switching something else.  The Ferossi idea would work for a while and be more breathable than a pit zip jacket, but the rain jacket would survive for longer.

Trade-offs

[Brad W]

It is true that ponchos can get water ingress, especially in the arm holes and generally that your arms tend to get wet. With that said, and I should have mentioned it in my last post, but I always have a water resistant wind jacket on me, and if its colder, I wear it under the poncho with it unzipped. Via a combo of the windjacket plus the Terramar polypropylene baselayer under it (repels water) over a mesh baselayer, my skin doesn’t actually get wet most of the time, and when it does a little, it dries really fast. (This is akin to the Paramo concepts/systems, except lighter and less hot).

You’re going to get wet no matter what, whether it is from rain or perspiration.  That is not the issue so much.  The real issue is, “how long does it take to dry” and are you relatively comfortable meanwhile?  The system I outlined is excellent at drying very fast and keeping you comfortable meanwhile.  (Provided the DWR is working well on the windjacket).

Appreciate the insight from you and everyone here. Something to consider. I guess I still have PTSD from the trip that was the impetus for this post.

 

On my recent trips I feel I have made progress. 1500-2000 ft climbs in freezing temps, light rain then snow as I climbed, comfortable and little to no sweat. Last trip I had the OR Echo and Kor Airshell that worked great. Zero sweat on the climb-I had to unzip it for a short period. Ferossi pants covered with Patagonia Houdini wind pants. No sweating under that either. OR PL400 gloves with BD overmitts, I removed liner gloves halfway up and just wore ovemitts-Non-waterproof mid boots, Darn Tough socks with Sealskinz mid calf socks. Feet were slightly damp at the end-I might try anti-perspirant on my feet. For descent I through on Peleton 97 over the Echo, Kor over that.  For me the 0.5 neoprene socks are not warm enough while not exerting-they quickly get cold with the constant wet snow on top of the shoe, the Sealskinz keep my feet warm the entire time.

 

[David D]

I’ve been thinking or using a similar footwear system with Bridgedales, an Injinji liner and breathable boot.  One drawback is that my regular GTX hiking boots absorb 0.5lbs water each so a non waterproof boot possibly even more.  Can’t test that out because no one in the city carries one large enough.

My trip this weekend was the first trial of Merrell Moab Speed 2 Thermo Mid (only winter boot I can find big enough).  With just lightweight Darn Toughs, my feet have never been so wet with sweat at the end.  Like wet.  I’ve used other winter waterproof hiking boots and my feet get damp but these really locked in the juices.  Given a choice, I’d take my chances with a breathable boot.

[Brad W]

I’ve been thinking or using a similar footwear system with Bridgedales, an Injinji liner and breathable boot.  One drawback is that my regular GTX hiking boots absorb 0.5lbs water each so a non waterproof boot possibly even more.  Can’t test that out because no one in the city carries one large enough.

My trip this weekend was the first trial of Merrell Moab Speed 2 Thermo Mid (only winter boot I can find big enough).  With just lightweight Darn Toughs, my feet have never been so wet with sweat at the end.  Like wet.  I’ve used other winter waterproof hiking boots and my feet get damp but these really locked in the juices.  Given a choice, I’d take my chances with a breathable boot.

 

I never felt my boots-Topo Trailventure 1 and 2, held enough moisture to weigh me down. I should measure weight next trip. It’s not noticeable on my feet.

[Terran Terran]

It’s that snow on the shoe thing that seems to compromise the Sealskinz. It felt like I was taking on moisture. While mine didn’t fail, it felt like it was a matter of time before they did. IDK. Just my initial thoughts. I’m switching over from trail shoes to some mid heights, sizing up slightly.

[Brad W]

It’s that snow on the shoe thing that seems to compromise the Sealskinz. It felt like I was taking on moisture. While mine didn’t fail, it felt like it was a matter of time before they did. IDK. Just my initial thoughts. I’m switching over from trail shoes to some mid heights, sizing up slightly.

I think any ‘breathable’ material suffers when constantly soaked from the outside be it from submerged or snow constantly melting and covering the sock.

For the 3-4 times I have worn them,  I test them after words,  while hand washing by filling them up and squeezing slightly-no drips.

[Author]

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