Warm, lightweight insulated “puffy” jackets

[Aaron Goldzimer]

Hi! I need a warm, lightweight “puffy” jacket with a hood. I have a Montbell Permafrost Down Parka that I bought in 2010. And I’ll probably buy a Patagonia R2 TechFace. So I’m looking for something for when it’s too cold for the fleece – but not cold enough for the down parka. I’d want to wear it both when I’m not doing anything strenuous (but when it’s cold enough that the R2 fleece won’t cut it) – but also when I’m hiking (or maybe even occasional 30-minute runs) in cold weather. Probably only for above-freezing temps, though. I wouldn’t use it by itself in the rain – but there could be wind or some drizzles or unexpected precipitation. I’m thinking mostly of the following options – but am open to anything. What do you think would be best for me? How should I decide? Thank you so much!

1.  Patagonia Micro Puff
10.5 oz
65-g PlumaFill
31 Patagonia Insulation Warmth Value (1-100)
10D Pertex® Quantum 0.8-oz nylon ripstop with DWR

2.  Patagonia Nano Puff
12.8 oz
60-g PrimaLoft® Gold Eco
27 Patagonia Insulation Warmth Value (1-100)
20D 1.4-oz ripstop with a DWR

3.  Patagonia Nano-Air
14.14 oz
40-g FullRange
28 Patagonia Insulation Warmth Value (1-100)
30D 1.6-oz air-permeable shadow stretch ripstop with DWR

4.  Montbell Thermawrap Pro
15.1 oz
80gsm EXCELOFT
20-denier Ballistic nylon ripstop (water repellent finish)

5.  Enlightened Equipment Torrid Jacket
8.29 oz
68gsm CLIMASHIELD™ APEX
10D or 7D nylon with DWR

6.  Arc’teryx Proton Hoody
14.6 oz
80gsm PrimaLoft Gold Active Vent
20D Fortius Air 20 nylon shell with DWR, 58gsm

7.  Or something else?  :)

[Dan]

It really depends a lot on your climate and activities, so you probably know better than us. Personally, for casual wear I get a lot of use out of my Patagonia Nano Puff Hoody (I actually bought a second when it was on sale). I also reach for it as an extra layer for cold weather hiking or backcountry skiing, although it’s generally too warm for me to wear when climbing or skinning strenuously.

[Aaron Goldzimer]

Thanks. I tried to outline my climate and activities as much as I could – but it’s hard for me to overlay that against the different options and know which would be best, relative to each other, or how to choose. But, thanks, one vote for the Nano Puff!

[Brad Rogers]

I would think that two different garments would fit the bill – for static use a down sweater like the Nunatak JMT would be an awesome option, but for your hiking and running senecios I would think something like an Alpha Direct fleece and a windshirt would be the best option.

[Terran Terran]

Patagonia DAS Light with Plumafill. DWR Pertex

The R1 is almost as warm as the R2. Perhaps just slightly less breathable. The R1 has a hood adjustment and drawcord for the waist. The R2 doesn’t.

[Steofan M]

I’m happy with 60 GSM PrimaLoft Gold in a 100% nylon shell. The maker went out of business a while back but the jacket is worn daily in all activities from early fall to late spring and goes through the washer and dryer at home. Keep this in mind while looking, down insulation is great but I don’t think that it could take what I’ve done to this jacket.
Steven M.

[Bill Budney]

For active use, I want fleece or a puffy vest, not a puffy jacket.

If fleece is not enough, then consider a second layer of fleece (including AD/Airmesh). Or a windshirt on top of the fleece (or both).

Your Permafrost has 9-ish ounces of down fill, which is a lot. The jackets you listed have 2-3 oz of synthetic, which isn’t all that much. However, they probably don’t breathe nearly as well as fleece, which matters when you’re active.

The light jackets you list are popular, but mostly for static use on cool Summer nights.

If you truly want a jacket for active use, then you will want the most breathable fabric possible (synthetic insulations themselves tend to breathe fairly well). Timmermade makes a Climashield (Apex) jacket with extremely breathable fabrics. All of the fabrics he uses have higher air permeability than the EE Torrid (which has unusually high MVTR fabric but moderate CFM — like a windshirt).

So Timmermade is probably top choice. EE is probably second choice, although your other jackets have not been lab tested AFAIK.

[David D]

I’d overheat big time hiking in any of these above freezing.

Hiked today very comfortably in 20f wearing just a Brynje long sleeve with Lifa on top.  Anything more just made me load with sweat

[Aaron Goldzimer]

I mean, sometimes you need to start out with something warm, b/c it’s cold outside! Can always open the jacket – or tie it around your waist – if you warm up enough?

[Bill Budney]

The point we’re trying to make is that there is a difference between active insulation and static insulation. For active use, a windshirt over your fleece, or a second layer of fleece if really cold, will be much more comfortable than a puffy.

An in-between case can be made for vests, which warm your core while allowing ventilation like giant pit zips. Combined with opening the front zipper, vests are more flexible than jackets.

Puffy jackets are really best for sitting around, when you want more insulation and don’t care as much about breathability.

[Thom]

Be bold start cold . My 20s F daily walk clothing . Fleece hoodie of some kind ,a windbreaker with a hood, fleece gloves good for nose wipe ,light base layer bottoms, terabone joggers, dirty girl gaiters for snow and stones, running shoes.
Thom

[Terran Terran]

I often find that even the R1 can be too warm when exerting myself. Personally though, I don’t go into bad weather unprepared. One slip on the ice and I’m limping home cold. No thank you. I’m out for exercise. A little extra weight only adds to it. Especially when my only kit consists of maybe a bottle of water.  Unless you’re after a speed record everytime you go out.  Never mind what others say. Do what makes you comfortable and what keeps you safe.

[Mark Verber]

It seems like you want active insulation for near freezing temps,  and that it can combined with a heavier jacket when you are static?

Personally, I won’t bother with the R2. My answer would be alpha direct (60-120gsm depending on how warm you run) plus some wind protective shell you can open and close to vent.  AD90 is lighter, about the same warmth as R2 when both have the wind blocked but less warm when air is moving… giving AD a large comfort range.

For me, AD90+shell is warm enough when I am doing say 2-3 MET (slow walking) down to around 40F.  Without a shell and a modest wind I can happily be at 8 MET (hard uphill or z2 jog) when it’s 50F, and ok when sitting around at 68F.

Like Bill, I am a big fan of a light vest if I need to span between my fleece and a truly warm jacket for the same reasons he provided.

 

[SoftKjell]

I’d want to wear it both when I’m not doing anything strenuous (but when it’s cold enough that the R2 fleece won’t cut it) – but also when I’m hiking (or maybe even occasional 30-minute runs) in cold weather.

Considering this, you’d maybe rather want the Nano Air or Arcteryx Proton (“active insulation”, wind-permeable fabric) than a Nano/Micro Puff (wind-resistant fabric), of the options that you mentioned

However, wind-permeable fabrics make for a jacket that’s not very warm while you’re stationary. You can work around this by wearing a hardshell over everything while having your break, you’d probably carry one anyway — but if we’re talking about layering strategies, you could just as well wear a higher CFM (more breathable) windshirt over a regular fleece jacket instead of combining the two into a $350 item like the Arc Proton, and for breaks, carry a wind-resistant puffy that will insulate better gram-for-gram.

In the end it depends a lot on subjective stuff like your local conditions, personal preference, how hot or cold you run. Do you like to go fast, eat granola straight out of the bag while moving, or stop to cook lunch and dinner, take a couple of photos. Maybe you’re hiking with kids or other people whose pace and expectations you need to take into account. Are you going above or below the treeline, is it humid or dry or particularly windy where you’re going etc.

Personally, I’m fine hiking with a baselayer and a medium weight fleece under a windbreaker until it’s a few degrees C below freezing, maybe add a lightweight longsleeve or a puffy vest if it’s windier or more humid.

[Thom]

The alpha direct is warm and light . Will it last like a regular old fleece ? I do prefer separate pieces like base , insulation, wind layers.
Thom

[Terran Terran]

I may have well over 100 days on mine. AD 90. A few small snags, but it’s wearing pretty well. A few small holes in the seat of my leggings. I expect the top to last a couple more seasons.

[David D]

How would an AD120+Houdini compare for warmth vs something like a Torrid or Micropuff or similar?  Based on specs, seems like it’d be a fair bit warmer, lighter and more flexible.  Anyone compare?

Thinking of getting a Super Cruiser or equivalent for pauses on winter snowshoe adventures (I can’t do down).

[baja bob]

Not even close if you are talking static warmth. AD is not good for sitting around in the cold.

[JCH]

AD is not good for sitting around in the cold.

Depends on what you call “cold”, but I’m going to disagree.  I have both a Timmermade AD90 hoody and a MH Airmesh (Teijin  Octa) LS crew and find them both to be quite warm at rest under a Montbell Tachyon.  Extremely so when both worn together. How warm will be up to you, but for me (either) 1 would be good to upper 40s and both layered together to mid 30s. The windshirt is critical.

I love the Timmermade, it’s an extremely well made piece, warm and comfortable.  However judging strictly on a cost/performance basis I would suggest layering Octa pieces until you reach the desired warmth. At less than 5 oz each, 3 layers and a windshirt would be ~17 oz and as warm or warmer than a 17 oz down puffy AND modular.  Octa is thinner than AD90 and 3 layers would not be restrictive as it is quite stretchy…just size up the outer layer.  If you are patient MH Airmesh pieces can often be found on Amazon for ~$40.  Additionally, Octa is much less susceptible to damage…it is surprisingly robust for such a light fabric

Just my opinion, HYOH and all that, but I will be buying Octa going forward. If Timmermade would produce the hoody in Octa it would be perfect.

Edit: REI currently has the Airmesh men’s crew on sale for $55.

[Terran Terran]

I think insulation sandwiched between 2 layers of fabric will almost always be warmer. More clammy though. Jackets for me are often off and on. A last resort. For static use, i wear AD 90 over Byrnje for extra warmth. Then I put on a R1/2 , adding an insulated jacket for more extreme cold. If I were to consider AD 120, I’d look at the R1 Air as well for possibly more durability.

Buy the AD when you can get it. There’s often a shortage. Expect to pay full price. Everything else can often be found on sale, if you’re patient.

[David D]

I’d already be wearing Brynje+Lifa+Octa+light mid insulation (OR Echo, or decathlon fleece or…), thinking of throwing the Super Cruiser on top at rest stops, overlaid with a Houdini.

Trying to find the relative warmth between the SuperCruise+Houdini vs say a micro puff or Timmermade or Torrid.  I suspect the apex tops will probably be warmer, but how much dunno.  The Super Cruise+Houdini would be way more versatile.    Can’t find CLO values comparing.

[Terran Terran]

It might be more breathable. Less water resistant. At that point, I start counting sleeves. It seems they all twist differently and I have to straighten them out. I’d rather just put on a jacket. Maybe take something else off if it’s too warm.

[David D]

I’m fine with the layers.  And bring a rain shell

[Bill Budney]

Trying to find the relative warmth between the SuperCruise+Houdini vs say a micro puff or Timmermade or Torrid.

Torrid uses 2 osy Apex. Extrapolating from RSBTR’s specs, that should give about 12 mm loft.

“AD120” is actually 135 gsm or 4 osy. My well-used AD90 has no more than 4 mm of loft, max. AD120 will be less than 6mm for sure (after some use and washing).

So loft:weight for raw Apex is at least 4x that of AD. In real life, AD requires two layers of shell, so at least 2x for the complete jacket, perhaps more.

A single layer of EE’s magic fabric makes an excellent windshirt, but two layers is two layers. It cannot breathe as well, nor dump heat as quickly as AD. It might be better than your Houdini, but it won’t be like wearing all AD/Airmesh and a Dooy.

Timmermade’s Apex jacket has substantially more breathable fabrics than EE, as well as 2.5 osy Apex.

Timmermade also makes an AD+shell jacket with your choice of AD60/90/120. The shell should make it easier to put the jacket on and take it off — AD can be a bit “grabby”. Nunatak has said that he likes the AD+shell combination for cold weather when he would always wear the shell anyway.

TLDR: Apex for warmth:weight and Timmermade for the most breathable shells.

(Note that part of the beauty of AD/Airmesh is the way that they dump heat when you unzip your shell. That is especially important in moderate weather. In cold weather, unzipping any jacket you happen to be wearing will dump heat quickly, so AD may be less important for cold-weather insulation. Just something to consider.)

[Terran Terran]

Then I’d probably go for it. I’m only familiar with the AD90. One way or another, I’m sure you can make it work. It’s a very comfortable piece. I actually prefer it under the mesh, but it wears quicker that way.

[Author]

Posts