Walmart

[Nick Gatel]

Well, some people need to shop at Walmart. So we can’t speak bad about that.

Years ago, there was a Walmart in a neighboring city, and Walmart desired a new location. So, considering all the tax breaks and corporate welfare our fair city offered, they moved to Palm Springs.

Just after this move, I went to my local barbershop I had been patronizing for 30+ years, which was located in our largest shopping center. It was a fairly large operation. Sitting down, the barber (hair stylist?), a young lady, started a conversation.

“I’m so excited about Walmart moving into town. Aren’t you?

“No.”

“Why not?”

“Well, they have a hair salon, right?”

“Um, yeah.”

“This is how it is going to work. They’ll be doing hair cuts for $7. You guys charge $20. You are open 6 days a week from 9-6. They’ll be open from 7-midnight or some similar long hours, and will be open 7 days a week. People will flock there for haircuts. Soon your barbershop and the whole shopping center will close, because everyone will be shopping at Walmart and getting haircuts. The other barbershops in town will close. If you want to be a barber, you’ll have to work at Walmart. They will probably pay a little above minimum wage since they will be the only game in town, versus what you are making here renting a station.”

“Excuse me,” picking up her phone. “Honey, we can’t shop at Walmart anymore, they are trying to take away my job away.”

The barbershop closed a year or two later, then the entire shopping center. I don’t know if this particular Walmart does haircuts, I don’t go there.

[Ken Thompson]

“Well, some people need to shop at Walmart. So we can’t speak bad about that.”

Nick?, is that you? , lol.

[Ken Thompson]

Interesting that Costco doesn’t seem to get the same bad press and charge you to shop,there.  Sol Price, genius.

[Jerry Adams]

“Nick? Is that you?”

Or, “Who are you and what have you done with Nick?”

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Ian, you say “lunatic fringe” like it’s a bad thing. ;o)

But yes, there are some of us here with OCD problems of one type or another. Obsessive hiking, obsessive gear buying, etc. Me? Well maybe its the 6 (yes) Tarptent tents have owned – and still own 3.

[Jeff McWilliams]

I’m late to the party, but I want to respond to Dave Thomas’s assertion that 2 person backpacking tents haven’t weighed 6+ lb since the 70’s.

I got news for ya.  When I joined my local adult outdoors club in 2008 and took their Beginner Backpacking Class, one of the lightest tents the club loaned out to members was the REI Half Dome 2Plus tent, and it weighs 6+lb.

In fact, I just checked and the tent is STILL on the club’s equipment roster.
You can see it here:  https://www.solaroutdoors.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SOLAREquipmentList20190529.pdf

Page 2, listed as TNT-17.

When we were taking the class, we purchased the REI Quarter Dome 2 from REI’s discount section so that we’d have something lighter, but still within our budget.   It was cheaper because it was the 2007 model. At the time it was pretty darn lightweight at 4+lb and we were thrilled to have it rather than carry the 6+lb Half Dome.

Anyhow, the assertion that nobody has been using 6# 2-person tents for backpacking since the 70’s is a bit far fetched.

I follow a bunch of Michigan hiking and backpacking groups on Facebook and beginners post on their ALL the time asking for gear purchasing advice. You’d be surprised how limited a budget some people have (or how cheap they are, I try not to judge).   The 3f ul brand from China / AliExpress is extremely popular, particularly the Lanshan 2 Pro tent, which is a silnylon copy of the Duplex.

That Walmart tent will probably compete well with tents like the Kelty Gunnison 2, shown here (REI Outlet).  That’s ALSO a 6.1LB tent, by the way.

[Nick Gatel]

Jeff,

Yeah, there are heavy tents at REI. They also sell the Gregory Baltoro 95 backpack that weighs in over 6 lbs. REI also likes to sell these for backpacking at 4lbs per pair.

 

 

Over the years I have mostly used tarps, but I’ve owned a few tents too.

In the ’60s I bought a used REI “two man” A-frame at a swap meet that weighed 5.5 lbs.

Over the years I bought these tents from REI:

1970s: Sierra Designs Flashlight, a “two man” tent that weighed under 4 lbs. This is Sierra Designs best selling tent of all time, today still sold as the Clip Flashlight and still under 4 lbs.

1980s: Sierra Designs Super Flash “two man” tent. It is a true 4 season tent, and along with the North Face VE-25 was the standard issue tent for the US Antarctic Program for many, many years. I only used this tent on winter snow trips. Weight is 6.2 lbs.

1980s: Chouinard Pyramid. Can sleep 4. Total weight with pole is 3.3 lbs. I have noticed that some of the present pyramids such as Chouinard’s successor Black Diamond, and many of the cottage companies sell mids with the exact same design and dimensions, only the materials are lighter. I recently bought a BD Mega Light that weighs the same as what the cottage companies offer.

I still have all these tents.

Years ago, in the ’70s REI had several scales throughout their stores. About 10 years ago I was in a REI in Nevada, and asked if I could use their scale. They didn’t have one, and everyone including the store manager couldn’t understand why I needed a scale. Times have changed and REI, isn’t what it once was.

[David Thomas]

>”Times have changed and REI, isn’t what it once was.”

There was a time when members could run to be a Director of the cooperative of which we are all members.  No longer.  Now only Board-approved candidates are put before the membership so the Board becomes whatever the Board wants to be and screw the membership.

I’d want ALL items to give weight specifications (and many other specs).  And to go back to only muscle-powered sports.  Alpine skiing is NOT muscle-powered.  Car roof racks AREN’T muscle-powered.

[Nick Gatel]

I suppose us older people still want to go back to the old days.

REI is still going and apparently still successful. Most of their stuff is sold at full retail before dividends. Their online business seems customer friendly and I usually receive products in just a few days. Yakima and other similar things are probably sources of good profit margins. Back in the ‘70s mail order was a big source of revenue.

A lot of the REI stores are small compared to the Seattle, Berkeley, and Carson stores in the 70s.

Most of the ‘70s big retailers are gone or have gone the urban product route like REI.

Campmor is still around with that funky store in Paramus, NJ and those quirky little catalogs.

The Ski Hut (which spawned Sierra Designs) is gone. Sports Chalet is gone. I think A16 (Wayne Gregory was employee #2) closed last year.

[Jeff McWilliams]

Okay – getting a bit off topic lamenting the change in character of various outdoor retail shops and online sellers over the years, but here goes:

Moosejaw got bought by Walmart, but the MJ headquarters is still located just a couple of miles from me.  The Moosejaw shops are still small, but they cater to urban wear just as much as any big “outdoors” brand does.   The last time I was in one I was shopping for a rock/ice climbing backpack.  They carry a few that I was able to try on before making a purchasing decision.

Backcountry.com gave themselves a very bad reputation in my mind when last year they unfairly started going after ANY company with the words ” back country” in their product name.

There’s a Fjallraven retail store an hour away in Ann Arbor.  Talk about urban wear:  the last time I was in there, they had a whole wall covered with those little Kanken packs.   I have one pair of their pants, which I think are the “Abisko” model.  The heavy duty fabric is bomber and great for orienteering, which often requires bush whacking through thorns, patches of thick autumn olive, etc.  The integrated gaiter is also nice for the same purpose.

We have a “Sierra” outlet about 20 minutes away.  Never been in it.

Probably my favorite outdoor shop is an independent shop in Keene Valley, NY called “The Mountaineer”.  Whenever we go and visit the Adirondacks, stopping by The Mountaineer is a required part of the itinerary.   The Eastern Mountain Sports store in downtown Lake Placid is okay but not nearly as hard core.  They do have a good selection of recreation stuff in stock, from Stand-Up Paddleboard gear to backpacking stuff, to rock climbing essentials.

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

REI used to sell fabric ~1970

I made a mid and a pack

Years later the PU coating degraded, got sticky, and smelled bad – so the coating wasn’t very good, and it was heavy.  Much better fabric today

[Nick Gatel]

“The times they are a-changin”

Backcountry and Moosejaw started in the ‘90s, Campsaver in the 2000s.

There is a small company in So Calif that’s been around for a long time, Nomad Ventures. Don’t know when they started, but I bought a few things from them in the ‘80s. Climbers are familiar with their Joshua Tree and Idyllwild stores. The Idyllwild location does a robust business during PCT season. I think they have a couple other stores.

Woolworth’s, Sprouse-Reitz, Montgomery Ward and JJ Newberry are history, soon to be joined by Sears, Kmart, and JC Penny. Thrifty Drug Stores used to carry some backpacking equipment, to include external frame backpacks, and they had the best ice cream – gone.

Things change, life goes on.

[Jerry Adams]

J Crew, Neiman Marcus

Meanwhile, Bezos will be the first trillionaire

I forget where I heard that opinion

[Ken Thompson]

Adapt or die.

[Brad W]

I don’t get the tents. Ozark Trail already has some lighter backpacking tents that are cheaper. I have a couple and they are decent quality.

[Ian]

Apparently Campsaver is a sponsor.

As far as the tents go, Jeff hit it on the head.  It’s directly competing with REI’s Halfdome, which AFAIK is REI’s budget option, except Walmart is selling their’s for even half the cost of a comparable Halfdome.

My guess is that they are marketing this gear to people who are more interested in features and low cost than weight and simplicity.  There’s a huge market for it provided scouting survives.

I’m sure someone from BPL will grab one of these packs and go after it with a razor.

“I saved yet another .4 grams by cutting off 1/4″ of unnecessary grosgrain!”

[Aaron]

$130 for a 5.4 lb tent really isn’t that cheap. I got an Alps Mountaineering Zyphyr 2 maybe a decade ago and it’s a really nice, roomy, 2 person car camping tent under 5 lbs trail weight. Just looked it up, same price. $130. Also took it on my first overnighter. Was way too bulky with my 4 lb sleeping bag lol.

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