Troop Backpacking Tent Ideas for Philmont

[Michael F]

Brad,

Unlike your troop, ours provides tents to all scouts…Alps Mountaineering Taurus 3 Outfitters that we sleep 2 people in. We could certainly use those for the weight training aspect as they’re even heavier than the MSR Thunder Ridges that PSR provides.

At our adult committee meeting this month I was given a healthy budget to acquire 4 tents, a couple stoves and replace a bunch of MSR dromedary bags. If I can work it in, I’ll also get that lightweight dining tarp.

Anyway, my local REI guy also suggested the Nemo Hornet 2P which is yet a pound lighter than the Dagger.

[Brad P]

I was a little concerned about giving scouts some of the lighter tents. Of course we teach them to care for the tents, but they’re still kids. They’re not all going to be as careful with them as adults.

[Bruce Tolley]

I think we have had this thread before. Try the search function on BPL.

Since I have been the guy to repair some of our Troop tents in the past, I would point to the vendors that stand behind their product in terms of warranty and availability of spare parts. In that regard, I have had very good experience with both REI and Big Agnes.  Most of the mainstream tent vendors quote external dimensions and obtain their low weight specs because they are barely 75 to 80 inches long on the inside and are sometimes less than 40 inches wide in the foot end of the tent (so the two sleeping pads need to overlap). But this should not be a problem with Scouts 6 ft tall or shorter. My son and his tent buddy shared a Big Agnes Seedhouse.SL2. You can get them 30 to 40% off at the end of the season in early Fall from REI.com, EverestGear.com and other vendors.

[Bob Shuff]

Hi Brad P – I think you’ll be happy with the REI Half Dome 2 Plus for shakedowns and future troop camps, and I’m also with your troop on using the Thunder Ridge tents for the scouts.

Michael F – can you provide the link to the Amazon tarp.  I noticed OES has one, but it is out of stock in this size.  Philmont is saying theirs is 2lb. 3oz.  I don’t think that includes cordage.  You can use trekking poles with it and save 1.45lb.  I have a 9×9 square tarp from Yama Mtn and I’m wondering if that plus another of similar size silnylon or silpoly tarp might not be more flexible and lighter than the Philmont tarp.  However the same logic about using Philmont’s durable tent option is appealing for the tarp.

 

[Michael F]

Bob, here’s the link to the Amazon Tarp. To be fair, I’ve focused my efforts on the tents not tarps but at first blush this seems to hit a sweet spot for size, weight and price. Note that for $90 you get a 10’x12′ tarp, 60 feet of 1.5 mm Dyneema guy line, six micro line-lok adjusters, six aluminum Y-stakes and a stuff sack.

https://www.amazon.com/Sanctuary-SilTarp-Ultralight-Waterproof-Backpacking/dp/B06XJ7322N/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1521054541&sr=1-3&keywords=silnylon%2Btarp&th=1&psc=1″

Thoughts?

[Brad P]

Deleted.

[Michael F]

Brad and Bruce,

Regarding the tents, the good thing is that these tents are specifically earmarked for high adventure which means they’ll received limited use…perhaps one PSR trek and one other high adventure trip per year. Further, due to BSA high adventure and our own troop age restrictions, the only guys using the tents will be aged 15+ and Life rank or higher. Not only will they have many more nights camping under their belts but hopefully they’ll be more receptive than the really young guys to learning to care for the gear.

[Bob Shuff]

Nathan Meyerson is selling pre-cut tarp pieces on another thread, but they are much smaller.  I asked him if he could do the same for a 10×12 tarp.  He responded quite reasonably as follows:

Hi Bob, these are already pre-cut by laser for me. I’m happy to sell two tarp blanks and hardware. And you could turn that into an 11×9 .

Post Link: https://backpackinglight.com/<wbr />forums/topic/myog-silpoly-<wbr />solo-tarp-kits-perfect-<wbr />beginner-project/#post-3524550

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Michael

Re limited use.  In my experience, depending on the manufacturer. the WP coating on the silnylon, the taped seams, and other bits can degrade after a few seasons just from storage in my unheated garage.   So I now store my clean tents inside the house loosely stuffed into cotton pillow cases.  In other words, I would probably make the same recommendation when the tent is used just once per year.

[Michael F]

Excellent suggestion Bruce. In fact, the troop used to own a fair number of lightweight backpacking tents. Last June I was tasked with replacing the troop’s 40 year old gear shed. I took the opportunity to go through every single item the troop owned as we moved them from the old shed to the new one. It was then that I found the tents. Many of them hadn’t seen the light of day since a 2014 PSR trek while for others it was even longer. The upshot was that most of them were delaminating and falling apart so we made the decisions to toss them. I guess we learned our lessons.

[Brian Crain]

We had 1 crew in 2015 that took two Oware 10×10 pyramids with the optional bug netting along the bottom and the bathtub floor. These worked perfectly and were the absolute lightest option which is what was needed for a young and small crew (3 sub-100lb boys and one right at it). This year we are taking two crews and picked up two Tarptent Hogbacks to go with the Owares.

The Oware pyramids have survived treks at Philmont and the Grand Canyon, the only issue we have actually had was at Beaubien in Philmont …while we were horseback riding a herd of cattle came through and one of them actually stepped onto the pyramid, snapping one of the trekking pole supports and poking it through the tent… a little tape and life was good again.

[Michael F]

Brian, we have a big enough troop (100 boys) that we were able to pull together an entire crew of guys the same age who crossed over at the same. By next June they’ll all be 16 or almost 17 years old and entering their junior year of high school. I expect since all are Life rank now the majority (or all) will have achieved their Eagle rank by the time we depart. Thus, an extra pound or two should be no problem.

In that vein, and I know this doesn’t count as SUL or even really UL, what is everyone’s thoughts on the Hubba Hubba NX 2P? I know it’s 4 lbs all-in (including ground tarp) but it seems to provide an amount of livability and features that many of the others do not. Given these boy’s size, they may need and want that space.

[Tony Ronco]

RE:  HS Juniors & Seniors Fitting in Brian’s Tent Recommendation.

Here’s some additional data points on Oware 10 x 10 Mids:  On all four of the treks my troop has done to Philmont that tent has been in the mix for each of those treks …  and four large HS Juniors & Seniors easily fit within it.    (Remember their packs are under the dining fly in the Bearmuda Triangle.)

YMMV … have a blast on your trek.

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Michael F

I think if you can get into the 1.5 to 2.0 lbs of shelter per person, you are accomplishing a lightweight goal. You could probably save some weight by taking 2 or 3 mill polycro for the footprints.

@ Brian and Tony. I personally love my mid for fall and winter and my tarp for spring and summer use. Glad to see troops using Oware tarps. In the past he has also offered a BSA discount.

While we are on the subject of tents and Philmont, the packed ground in the backcountry and staffed camp sites kills inferior tent stakes. And if you have a big wind storm, you will need 6 or 8 MSR ground hogs.  I found my titanium shepard stakes barely worked. We broke a number of Easton stakes. The cheap stakes that come with a lot of tents bent and broke. The stakes sold in the staffed camp commissaries were worthless.

[Walter Underwood]

Philmont does not require tents with an integrated floor. Ground sheets are allowed.

From the 2018 Guidebook to Adventure, page 39:
“Do not sleep on the bare ground. Use tents with floors or good ground cloths.”

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/philmont/pdf/GuidebookToAdventure.pdf

wunder

[Brad P]

2019 Guidebook just says:

Due to the terrain, wildlife, and sudden change in weather conditions, tents are a required shelter for a Philmont trek and therefore all crew members are required to sleep in a tent. Bivy sacks are not acceptable.

So a tarp/groundsheet combo is not a tent.

[Walter Underwood]

A flat tarp or cat tarp is not allowed. But a floorless pyramid has been a “tent”, by Philmont standards. Back in 2010, we had an MLD Speedmid and a BD Betamid. Not even a comment from our Ranger.

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2010/07/19/pyramid-tents-at-philmont/

The 2019 Guidebook to Adventure has modified the bit I quoted on page 39.

“Do not sleep on the bare ground. Use of tents with floors and good ground cloths is required.”

They’ve changed “floors or good ground cloths” to “floors and good ground cloths”, so now you must carry a ground cloth with your enclosed tent. Sigh.

[Brad P]

And the guide says the ground sheet must be 54″ x 84″ so each one of these can be cut into 2 groundsheets with a little left over.

Duck Brand Indoor Extra Large Window/Patio Door Shrink Film Kit, 84-Inch x 120-Inch

[David Y]

This month’s Scouting magazine reviewed tents. They were all 2-man backpacking which is in keeping with Scouting’s buddy system and camping philosophies.

I liked several but high price was a factor on some and size on others. Forget The North Face at over 8 pounds and nearly $600. To me there are three factors to consider in backpacking tents; roominess, weight and price.  So I preferred the Marmot Tungsten UL 2P, it’s almost as big as the biggest and light as the lightest and still only $300.

[SFOldManClan]

Here’s the link to the article that @moonshine mentioned.

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2019/02/raising-the-stakes-for-backcountry-tents

[SFOldManClan]

Exactly what we did.

[Matt Dirksen]

TNF’s 600 dollar. 8.5 lb  Mountain 25?

For Scouts?

There are SO MANY other tents they could have highlighted. Even in TNF’s line tents, there are far “better” choices for Scouts, imho.

(Sigh….)

(And after all these years, that tent Still doesn’t work for folks over 6ft tall)

 

[Brad P]

Hey, I’m sure a lot of scouts are camping above the arctic circle and need a tent like that.

It’s scary that the author thought that was appropriate and editors said run with it.

[SFOldManClan]

We are going in with 3 Zpack Triplex’s .74 DCF (25 ozs each)  for six scouts and the three adults are bringing;  One Zpacks Plexamid .51 DCF (15 ozs),  one Zpacks Duplex Camo (21 ozs), and one BA Tiger Wall UL2. (40 ozs)  total weight for all these tents is 151 ozs or about a 16 ozs more than  than 8.5 pound Mountain 25 Tent above. 151/9 = 16 ounces per person.

[Christopher V]

Our Troop has several of the Naturehike Mongar 2 tents, available at Amazon for $159.  It is a close knock-off of the MSR Hubba Hubba – good room for 2, 2 doors, 2 vestibules, free-stand and comes with a floor saver.  Total weight including floor saver is 4 lbs. 6 oz.  You can leave the floor saver at home and save 6 ounces.  The only problem we’ve had is one of the stuff bags tore a bit, but we’ve got that sewn up.  The “burrito bag” type stuff sacks that MSR and Sierra Designs use are very good!

[Author]

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