Trekking Poles (Member Q&A)

[Backpacking Light]

Companion forum thread to: Trekking Poles (Member Q&A)

Learn how to choose and use trekking poles for backpacking, trekking pole design, and how trekking poles influence physiological energy costs and biomechanics as related to mitigating overuse injuries.

[YoPrawn]

I don’t have access to these articles due to not being a real BPL member, but I did read an older BPL article that suggested trekking pole grips with an ergonomic forward tilt were quite dubious. As one anecdotal data point on that topic, ergo-grip poles are a night and day difference for me personally. This is because I use my trekking poles for 90% propulsion, 10% standing support. The ergo grip poles make it much easier to push deep into the ground behind my feet with no added strain to my arms or hands. I can do this for 15+ miles straight and feel great. Doing this same thing with straight poles hurts like hell after a few miles since I have to contort my wrists a lot to get a full push off. I have BD Trail Ergo Cork and non-Ergo poles which are as much of an apples to apples comparison there is between the two styles, so it’s not like it comes down to the pole design on any other aspect.

The only downsides to ergo grip poles is that they do not store as compact, and they are not as stable when you have to palm the grip and push down on it like a cane, which can happen when down climbing something steep. But, to be fair to ergo poles, the wrist strap itself is more inline with the verticality of trekking pole than non-ergo designs, so when you put all your weight into the wrist strap it doesn’t bend the pole as easily. I still use my non-ergo poles rarely, but only when I know I will be doing a lot of steep scrambling and not much long distance mile-crushing.

For people who trek with their poles set shorter and who use them more for stability and pushing their body weight up off their legs, probably don’t notice much help from ergo grips, as they tend to lift the trekking pole off the ground after it starts to get behind their feet.

[Miner]

I think some of issues raised in Ryan’s email are only a problem because they lost their context, which unfortunately, often happens on the internet. I’m going to go through them and hopefully Ryan takes some of this into consideration when he talks about it.

“Trekking poles make you more stable.” – this is true in some situations. Traveling on a snow covered slope, having 3 points of contact at a given time is a wonderful thing. Traveling cross country or on rocky uneven ground, they can indeed help with stability. When rushing at a faster than normal pace, they can keep you from stumbling due to not being as careful with your feet.  Similarly, late in the day, after having pushed the miles too much, they once again can help keep you from stumbling and falling due to being tired and not as careful with your feet. How much help they give, depends on the individual’s fitness and age, but they can help anyone, in certain circumstances. When I hiked the PCT, after 1500 miles, I found myself carrying my poles most of the time, but I was still happy to have them for uneven ground and especially the downhills, as they do help with the knees, even when I was in my 30’s, and even more now that I’ve reached 50.

“Trekking poles save you energy.” – They don’t save energy, but they can make part of you feel less beat up; see my earlier comment on the knees. I think this statment comes from some people using their upper arms to push, saving some energy on the legs. But given most of us tend to have legs of steele compared to our arms of twigs, this doesn’t apply to most of the backpacking population; particulary those doing long distance hikes where the body rapidly canibalized their upper body strength for calories long ago. My arms just don’t have the strength to help much on climbs to make a difference to my legs which are use to carrying the load anyway.

“Using trekking poles allow you to carry a shelter that doesn’t need poles.” – This is a true statement taken out of context. The full context is since you are carrying poles anyway, might as well save a little weight and get a shelter that can use them for support instead of carrying the extra weight of tent poles. Carrying trekking poles to support your shelter, when you don’t use the trekking poles for anythiing else, is heaiver, which if someone though about it for even a few seconds would realize this doesn’t make sense.

I started using Treking Poles in my late 20’s, after years of wondering why people waste their money on them. But once I tried them and realized how much they help, particuarlly on the downhills, I’ve never looked back. As both of my poles, since 2008 weigh ~8oz all together, I don’t mind carrying them, even if I’m not using them that often.

For many, the issue is what poles should I carry, which depends on how and where you plan on using them. I’ve seen metal poles bent but still usuable on the AT where carbon fiber poles shattered. But carrying something that weights maybe half a pound uses less energy than carrying ones that weigh over a pound. External locks seem to hold better than internal ones and break less. REI/Leki poles with internal locks made of plastic either broke or loosened very quickly, usually at the wrong moment.

Back in 2008, I bought the first of 3 sets of my current poles from Titanium Goat before they spun off to Ruta Locura. Together, they weighed 8oz or less, depending on the year I bought them. They have a thinner diameter shaft than almost all other poles, so the walls can be thicker for the weight. They will flex and bend more, like a young tree sappling, rather than being more inflexible and breaking like the normal  larger diameter carbon poles tend to do. I used my first set for a thru-hike of the PCT and for years afterwards until one was stolen by an animal and then when using just the remaining single pole, I tripped and rotated around that pole so I stepped on the shaft and broke it. So in 2012, I tried Gossamer Gears’ similar weight poles, but their larger diameter meant a thinner walls and less flexing, and they broke on very trival bumps or falls. So less than a year later, I bought my next set of poles from Ruta Locura, since I had good experience with my previous Goat Poles, and they worked on several hikes until the lower shaft started to split where the adjuster screw was from years of overtightening it; didn’t have that issue on my previous or next set, so I assume a material defect. I could have just replaced the cracked shaft since they sell them seperately, but I bought a new pair of poles from them since they had finally improved the handles, which had been my one of my only 2 complaints about them. The other complaint is they use an internal lock, but the compressed rubber fitting does hold better and longer than any of the plastic internal ones that I had on the REI/Leki poles that I despised. Because of how light they are, I don’t mind carrying them in one of my hands most of the day, even if the trail doesn’t require me to actually use them much. Did I aready mention how much better my knees feel on steep and long downhills? And they are indeed the support for my shelters; usually a tarp of somesort.

[Bill in Roswell]

I don’t know where you got your info from, but I would like to make a correction. REI poles have been made by Komperdell for at least 15 years. Leki is a wholly separate company. Written as is that was not apparent.

I agree  about compression fittings breaking, but that was endemic to all poles using that design. I did have a Komperdell fail, but never Leki or Black Diamond. By then I had learned to pull apart the poles and clean them. A good hunter cleans his rifle after using. Why should hikers be exempt?

Flick locks solved that issue when made with quality materials. User adjustment still needed on occassion. By the way, metal clamps seem like a good idea until they ice up! Made it a challenge to setup my Xmid!

[Roger Caffin]

We were on one of our 2-month long walks in Europe. We were camping in some trees near the access road to a high Refuge one evening, when we heard this strange click-click-click noise. Turns out it was a group of ‘walkers’ going up to the Refuge for the night (and the beer). They were all poling away like mad on the gently sloping asphalt road. They did look ridiculous.

On snow with snowshoes (or without) – we use them. Very good.

Going downhill on a rough track – optional, depending on your knees and your age.

Going downhill (or uphill) on a scree run with large boulders – dangerous. The tips will NOT always grip on the rock. Then you fall over and break either the pole or your leg.

My 2c.
Cheers

[Miner]

Bill,

I wasn’t trying to imply REI poles are made by Leki, but rather my pre 2008 experience with both brands was terrible. I most certainly have a pair of Lekis with internal locks in storage somewhere that I despise. Haven’t had a reason to try either since, as all their offerings are farther from what I want in a pole than what I have been using since.

[MJ H]

Going downhill on a rough track – optional, depending on your knees and your age.

It’s not optional for me if I want to go more than eight or so miles in a day.  I don’t know how much weight the poles take off my joints (I have ankle problems, not knee problems), but it’s a crucial amount.

[Roger Caffin]

I don’t think trekking poles take much weight off your knees at all, not in simple terms. Your arms are not strong enough for that.

Instead I think, partly from my own experiences, not to mention those of many, many others, that what they do is to stabilise your whole legs and body, as well as your knees. That means your leg muscles don’t have to be in a state of high tension all the time. The load becomes similar to the load your knees carry when walking on the flat.

Incidentally, this is not my own theory, but one which has been expressed by many ‘experts’ in the field over many years. In fact, it is very similar to how ski poles help when you are walking on the snow.

Cheers

[MJ H]

That makes sense.  Thanks.  I hardly bother with the poles on the flat.

[Dustin V]

Has anyone else noticed that using poles keeps their hands from swelling after a few relaxing miles?

I can just squeeze my hands every few steps, but I also use one for my shelter, to help take the jarring out of downhills and I’ll admit that my poles save me from falls. My mind wanders to the vistas, so I sometimes end up using them like a mobility cane to feel the trail.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

My dear Roger C.,

In my decades of using trekking poles on both eastern trails and now here in Nevada, California and Utah I have to totally disagree with your statement that trekking poles can’t help much on descent by taking weight off your knees “because your arms aren’t strong enough for that.” My experience (while having no knee problems) and that of hiking partners with knee problems is in direct opposition to your experience.

But ya gotta know how to properly use hiking pole straps in the same manner cross country skiers use them. I assume you know that and do so.

This is why it is silly to remove these straps to “reduce weight” as gram weenies are fond of doing. The straps are there to help you put weight on them, uphill or downhill, NOT merely to “hold the poles on your hands” as many novices think. Using hiking pole straps properly also reduces lower arm muscle strain that arises with improper strap use or no strap use.

And naturally, since I ALWAYS backpack with hiking poles I use then to suspend my Tarptent Notch Li solo tent. That is a gimme.

In the ’70s I looked at hiking poles and thought, “How dorky and unnecessary they would look in use. I’ll stick to my single bamboo hiking staff. After taking up XC skiing I soon changed my mind and use them all the time, hiking of backpacking.  “Two legs good, four legs better.” to quote Animal Farm.

[David Gardner]

I have been backpacking since the early 1960’s, so I started without trekking poles. I’ve tried them multiple times, but the only times I have felt like they provided any real utility have been very limited: crossing a stream, as an arrest tool when crossing unexpected snow patches, as a tent pole substitute, when I had a sore knee, all of which require only one. Well no – I just remembered that I found having two very helpful on the rare occasions when I had to bushwack through brush taller than my hips. So two for that rare thing, at least where I go. But I almost always end up just carrying them, usually in hand, sometimes strapped to my pack.

Other than the times when I’m anticipating one of those infrequent needs, they don’t really make sense to me. I think:

• Obviously they cost more to buy than not buying them at all, whatever the price point
• They don’t provide better stability in general; in fact, I question whether a user is in fact more likely to be fundamentally unbalanced when depending on poles instead remaining balanced without them
• Careful and secure placement of pole tips on technical terrain requires focus and concentration that detract from focus and concentration on the more important fundamental aspect of foot placement
• They are less reliable for traction on technical terrain such as bare rock and boulders than boots alone
• They inhibit one’s ability to regain balance after a significant slip and make a bigger fall more likely
• They interfere with your ability to protect your upper body and head in a significant fall or stumble and are therefore more dangerous in a significant fall
• They interfere with scrambling and climbing
• They weigh much more than tent poles
• They obviously require more work and burn more calories than walking without them

Some of those negatives/reservations might be attributed to the fact that I didn’t grow up with them, so maybe I haven’t developed intuitive, natural use of them. I know that many of y’all and plenty of long distance professional trekkers swear by and endorse them, but that is 0% convincing to me because my personal experience has been entirely the opposite. For example, I did the Sierra High Route last summer using them only 5-10% of the time, while my two younger companions used them the entire time. It appeared to me that they slipped, stumbled, and fell more often than I did, and their injuries were worse (though still minor fortunately). They often commented on how they were amazed that I did so well without them. When traction and conditions underfoot were unstable I would lower my center of mass, focus 100% on foot placement and balance and traction, keep my arms out and a bit forward for balance and stability, and stay low so that if I did slip or fall I would do so from a lower height and consequently less destructive kinetic energy would be generated. But I did not convince them that I did well because I don’t use poles.

In any event, most of my issues with trekking poles are issues of ergonomics and physics.

So, questions:

1. You’re carrying more weight, which according to the laws of physics unequivocally requires more work, s therefore more calories and more food. It takes a certain amount of work to lift or move a certain mass a certain distance, period. So if you are lifting or moving more mass, no matter whether it makes walking feel easier or more efficient somehow, the total amount of work done and calories burned is greater.  How can you argue with that?

2. Following on #1, unless you have a particular need or use for them, doesn’t it make more sense to just carry very light tent pole(s) instead of trekking poles that weigh 3x-10x more?

3. Not only are you carrying more weight with poles, you’re lifting and placing them repeatedly, like doing thousands and thousands of mini bicep curls. More work = more calories. The same argument that applies to lighter shoes apply to lighter hands as well.

4. Even if claims of “more power” are true, according to the laws of physics that necessarily means even more work and even more calories.

5. I believe that using trekking poles makes you dependent on them and detracts from developing and optimizing strength, balance and stability. Similar to the way tall boots don’t increase or develop ankle stability, and the studies that show deep soft insoles actually increase rather than decrease foot stability and injuries because they decrease feedback and mask problems in a runner’s stride when compared to thin, unpadded track shoes that give the runner feedback and lets them adjust their stride to reduce impact. Do you disagree?

6. My personal experience with several forward stumbles is that poles interfered with my ability to raise my arms and hands quickly and completely to protect my head, face and upper body. Worse than that, a CF pole that snapped on a rock during one such forward fall almost pierced my chest. Leaving aside the question of whether you think poles make a fall more or less likely, do you agree that poles are less safe when a fall does in fact occur?

7. Doesn’t careful placement on technical terrain such as scree and boulders require focus and concentration that detracts from focus and concentration on the more important fundamental of foot placement?

8. Since we didn’t evolve covering long distances using our hands, isn’t there a likelihood of developing repetitive stress injuries such as carpal tunnel syndrome when using the poles constantly, as opposed to using them only in situations that require them?

[Gary Dunckel]

Eric, I have a different opinion of the usefulness of pole straps. 8-10 years ago I was doing a day hike in Glacier Park. While walking through a brushy, curved corridor, I found myself facing a huge momma grizzly bear from about 20 feet away. Neither one of us quite knew just what to do. I backed up, talking softly so as to not seem like a threat to her. I had a heck of a time trying to quickly get my hands out of the pole straps so that I could get to my my pepper spray. It ended up fine, and in a few minutes the bear came down the trail and passed me. A short time later her 3 puppies came by, and the last one decided that I should be investigated. I freaked out, so I started screaming loudly at it so that momma could hear me. The mom uttered a loud grunt, and the baby hurried to her. End of the bear part of the story.

So I reported the incident to the ranger, then went to my room and cracked a beer. I proceeded to cut the straps off my poles so that it would never happen again. I haven’t used pole straps since that day. I’ve been chastised for that of course (mainly by alpinists that carry 50# packs), but with my 20-pound pack and my fairly strong hands I’ve not seen a real need to use straps any more.

 

[Gary Dunckel]

David, I’m not backpacking much any more. As I age, my balance has slipped a bit, and 2 years ago I slipped off a small log that was a “bridge” over a little creek. No harm, but it let me know that my good balance thing was no longer to be trusted. I now stride out in my flat nearby open spaces, and I like to use my ‘strapless’ poles. I like not having to watch my every step, and I can spend my time pestering the birds and other wildlife.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Eric

I suggest you may be placing the wrong emphasis on what I wrote.
statement that trekking poles can’t help much on descent by taking weight off your knees “because your arms aren’t strong enough for that.”
I still don’t think that trekking poles take much weight off your knees. Arms are no-where nearly as strong as legs.
But I am sure that for many people poles can add a lot of stabilty, and leave both the walker and his knees less tired at the bottom of a descent. As you wrote: “four legs better.”

But, YMMV
Cheers

[John S.]

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/hiking-gear/best-trekking-poles/

[Jerry Adams]

I found myself having difficulty crossing creeks on narrow logs – poor balance

Also, holding my foot in air and putting on shoe or sock

Then, I did 40 minutes per day of stationery bike for a few months

Now, my balance is much better

My balance problem was that my muscles were getting weak because I wasn’t getting enough exercise, and I’m becoming a decrepit old person.

[Roger Caffin]

Then, I did 40 minutes per day of stationery bike for a few months
Ah, but are you still doing it?

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

yes, most days I do 40 minutes.  Except when I’m out hiking.  I watch TV, look at my phone,…

I’m not slave to it though.  If I have something else to do.

[Jerry Adams]

also, my weight seems to have dropped from 200 pounds to 191 pounds or so

I don’t count calories although I try to eat lots of vegetables – Mediterranean diet sort of

I think maybe the exercise affects a weight threshold where the body tends to stay at a particular weight

[YoPrawn]

David Gardner, it’s interesting how much personal preferences play into this, as well as the quality of gear being used.

I disagree with over 90% of everything you wrote above in regards to my own experience. LOL

There are so many different body types, fitness levels, handicaps, needs, techniques, terrains, climates, and so on, it’s difficult for any of us to make any generalistic claims of how useful trekking poles might be for others.

[David Gardner]

True that. Personal factors and preference are a lot of what goes into the use/don’t use decision.

I’m interested whether you disagree with any of the physics part about work and power and calories? Or increased risk of repetitive stress injury to wrists/elbows/arms?

[YoPrawn]

Cheers, David

I use Ergo-grip (Black Diamond Trail Ergo Cork) poles which have the handle bent forward. Doing that alone eliminated virtually 100% of any discomfort or malaise to my shoulders, arms, wrists, or hands over long distances. I am not a thru-hiker or super-long distance guy at all, but I can do 15+ miles in a day if need be.

I am a tall guy at 6’4″ and I have skinny, long legs. I also have decently strong arms, but a weak lower back from birth defects. It takes a lot out of my legs to not only hold me and my pack, but to also do the job of propelling me forward. I can literally NOT do more than 10 miles in a day without some sort of hiking stick or trekking pole helping to propel me forward when carrying weight.

I use my trekking poles set between 130-140cm, which is pretty dang long. That way I can place the trekking pole tip just before my feet and then push off through the pole until the tip is 4+ feet behind my legs. All of my trekking pole energy is pretty much going to pushing me forward, especially going uphill.

Overall, when carrying weight in a pack, I feel much less drained after a long day using poles when I feel I need them.

When going downhill, the poles act as brakes for me as I place them far in front and lean into them. The geometry for being such a tall guy makes more sense for the braking and adjusting of my core mass from the point of where that mass is located. My legs do not have to handle that from a geometrically weak position they are in. Being tall and skinny limits the mechanical leverage my joints have over sideways loads. Shorter, beefier people don’t tend to suffer from these mechanical limitations as much as taller skinny folks.

 

[Scott H]

I have used trekking poles quite a bit but I am not a long distance hiker.  Actually I think long distance hikers/through hikers have less need for them because they hit incredibly high trail fitness.  I like them mostly for uphill down hill and balance in trickier places.  On our last hike my son and I had trekking poles and he fell which broke 1.  I am the stronger hiker so I gave him mine and used his remaining pole for the rest of the trip.  This gave me some insight for my own purposes.  I could go uphill effectively on steep terrain with one pole just constantly switching hands.  I do find them essential though on steep ups and downs for distributing weight shift across three or four points instead of two.  I could do the job with one pole but i had to do things a little differently.  For me on steep hard terrain, I don’t think I could hike a full day with a pack without poles.  Lots of hikers are more fit than i am though, I would describe myself as moderately fit.  I also like to take bigger trips into our east coast mountain ranges and I feel like poles make that better.  Someone above mentioned the straps, I looked at technique and I definitely use the strap as part of my leverage.  There is a certain way the strap goes on your wrist to avoid trapping the pole if you fall I saw it in a video, I use that and then the strap becomes part of how I lever the pole going up or down.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Gary,

Your griz experience would have left me going for Depends when in grizzly country. :o) But I do have a Taurus .44 magnum revolver for carry in grizzly country (and a bear spray canister as well). Spray in left hand, .44 in right hand. Use spray and then the .44 in dire circumstances.  Spray is supposed to work well,  but there are likely bears out there who may have not got the memo.

 

Seriously, when confronted with a big boar black bear standing on the trail on his hind legs in Yosemite I had no trouble getting my bear spray canister from its holster while my pole straps were on. Thankfully he ran off up a very steep ravine and I re-holstered my bear spray. No Depends needet that time.

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