Top 15 Best Ways to Reduce Crew Weight

[Kevin Sweere]

A brash title, indeed!

Where should a weight-focused Advisor focus his/her crews’ effort?   Drop the big cook pot, take your own tents or tarp, spare-tire reduction, pitchin’ parents to upgrade pack & sleeping bag, shifting from boots to trail runners?

For the simplified argument below, let’s assume a) ~everything is shiftable (e.g. tent, stove, food, clothes bag, etc.) from the slowest-weakest to fastest-strongest person so its really ~all crew gear, b) individual changes apply equally to all, c) its a game of comparing options, and d) we ignore all non-weight factors.  Thus the metric to compare is effective weight saved per person in a 12-person crew.  I include options just as examples, not recommendations.

Here’s my top 15….

1 & 2.  1-40 lbs. Lose Belly Fat and Leave Excess Junk Behind tied.  That’s # pounds dropped compared to nothing.  Bonus points for gaining strength, reducing volume, and reducing costs.

3. 8.5 lbs.  Trail Runners.  Drop the leather boots and wear trail runners. Sundowner GTX 3.2 lbs vs. typical trail runner 1.5 lbs.  x5 b/c weight on feet, not back.  Shoes cheaper too.

4.  2.7 lbs.  Backpack.  ‘Best’ backpack, 65L Atmos 4.6 lbs vs UL backpack, 60L Mariposa, 1.9 lbs.  Expensive if replacing a usable pack, can save $$ if its a must buy.

5. 2-4 lbs.  Water.  Carry 1-2L ‘extra’ water vs. only carry minimum until next fill point. Free but takes smarts, planning.

6. 1.87 lbs.  Chair.  Camp chair, 2 lbs. vs. Foam butt pad 0.13 lbs. (Value higher if use a backpack’s pad.)

7. 1.75 lbs. Tent.  Philmont Thunder Ridge Tent 2-person + stakes + ground cloth 6 lbs vs.Big Agnes Copper Spur HV, 3-person 4.13 lbs. (A 4 person UL tent –> 1.97 lbs)

8.  1 lbs. Sleeping bag.  Synthetic 20F sleeping bag, typical 2.5 lbs. vs. Down 20F sleeping bag, typical 1.5 lbs. Expensive.

9. 0.875 lbs. Socks.  Tall, full-cushion wool backpacking socks (2 packed, 1 worn) 0.25 lbs. each vs. ea Runner’s wool ankle socks (2 packed, 1 worn) 0.125 lbs each. Cheap fix.

10. 0.69 lbs. Camp Shoes.  Camp shoes 0.69 lbs. vs. Quick drying, ventilating hiking shoes.

11.  0.59 lbs.  Water bottles.  2x clear Nalgene Qt bottle 0.375 lbs. ea. vs. 2x 1L Smartwater bottles .078 lbs. ea.  Cheap, easy fix.

12. 0.15 lbs. Cook Pot.  2x Philmont 8qt aluminum pots 3.6 lbs. vs 1x pot.  (See other threads for that debate.)

13. 0.12 lbs.  Pocket knife. Typical, pocket knife per person .101 lbs. ea vs. just 2 knives as crew gear.

14.  0.10 lbs. Dining Fly Poles.  Philmont’s Dining Fly Collapsible Poles 1.3 lbs. vs. Use 4x trekking poles & 550 cord 0.02 lbs.

15.  0.067 lbs. Dining Fly.  Thunder Ridge Shelter (Dining Fly) + stakes 2.4 lbs. vs. Sanctuary SilTarp, Paria Outdoors, $80 1.6 lbs.  Nil weight saved and expensive, but something is needed for shakedown trips.

So as I figure it, 127 times the effort should go to shifting from boots to shoes than in taking your own dining fly.

How Best To Implement Each?… I leave that to your honorable comments.

 

[Brad P]

I bought a sil Duomid/inner for my son to use for Philmont during the MLD sale. Hopefully it arrives before Philmont. :) I figure if we do more backpacking, it’s a good tent. If not, I’ll sell it and it’s a rental.

The cost is something tough to ask our crew to take on, so we’ll probably do Philtents. I have a Duplex. I’ve suggested some lower cost, light options if people want to buy one. The Lunar Duo Outfitter isn’t ultra light, but is lighter and a great price.

Most of our crew already has heavy backpacks. That’s another thing I can’t really ask people to replace. I’ve suggested the My Trail Co. Backpack Light 70. I got one for my son. It’s also a great price and light.

I got a light dining fly for the troop.

We have our annual lock in this weekend and I’ve told the Philcrew to bring their gear. We’ll weigh everything and I’ll make suggestions. I put together a document of personal gear with what I think are good options for scouts.

Thanks for all the ideas!!

[David Y]

If your crew already has adequate packs (or at least big enough) it is hard to justify buying new lighter ones for maybe a one-time Philmont adventure. Find other ways to lighten your loads; carry fewer clothes changes, fewer better layers, don’t carry water filters and rely on just their Micropur tablets, don’t carry Philmont’s second 8 (6) quart pot and learn to cook and clean-up with just one, only boil the water needed per the package recipes and wash in cold water to use and carry less fuel, etc.

As far as tents, you need to train with something even if they’re too heavy to carry at Philmont and then use Philmont’s tents when you get there.

Glad you got a lightweight dining fly. We use Equinox 10’ x 12’ sil/nylon ultralight flies at only 1 lb. 3 oz. Now lace it with three 25 foot 1/8” nylon cords, one along the ridge line and one thru the grommets along each of the two edges to stake it out.  And ten lightweight aluminum stakes to pitch it with.

We ship USPS our 2 stoves and 3 11 oz. fuel bottles along with lightweight dining flies, 12 matching bowls and spoons, 4 homemade ripstop nylon bear bags, plastic camp trowel, butane lighters and 100 foot of light reflective 1/8” nylon cords for our oops bags.

[Brad P]

Our first gear shakedown was just at a meeting. Needless to say, other than my son, none of them are gear ready for Philmont. Big, heavy Coleman sleeping bags and other issues.

It’s frustrating. I sent out a long document I spent a lot of time on with suggestions for gear to get with a focus on affordable.

I’ve found several great sales the last few weeks and sent them out to the troop. All ignored. Sigh.

Plus, I’m having trouble getting enthusiasm for the trip. Hopefully that will change as we get into spring.

[David Y]

Welcome to the world of “herding cats”. You can only lead a horse to water and you just can’t convince people how hard Phimnont is really going to be. This is the real value of training shakedown trips with all their intended Philmont gear, crew gear, food and added weight to compensate for three days food supply  PAIN IS THE BEST TEACHER. It generally take three or more shakedown trips on as long and tough trails as you can find locally for them to realize and avoid their pain and sort out their gear.

Then the best you can hope for is they can carry their share of crew gear and food at Philmont so you won’t have to pick-up their slack. Sorry but you can’t worry about their pain beyond that. That sounds cruel but you can only lead a horse to water, you can’t drink it for them.

[Bob Shuff]

We ran out of time last summer getting ready for our fated Expedition in July.  We did lots of day hikes, but no overnights with just the Philmont crew.  Our troop does a lot of campouts and backpacks over the course of the year, so no one was a novice, but we could have used more dedicated shakedowns.  Kudos to anyone for starting as early as this.

We ended up spending a week in the Sierra and yes some scouts learned that they brought too much stuff or didn’t have the right tent, etc.  Mostly they toughed it out.  I think the best plan after sharing the information is to do as many shakedowns as possible with their Philmont kits, and hope it sinks in.  Most of our crew (esp. 15-17 yo scouts), can carry a heavier pack than me and still hike faster.  I’m not out for a speed record, and I let those on my crew know that from the outset.

I’m on the fence for 2020.  We got a prime slot starting 6/28, but my son will be 18 and a recent HS graduate.  If he wants to go, I may go as well.  For those with 2019 slots I look forward to your planning and report posts!

[Brad P]

At this point, it’s the parents who have to buy the gear. If it were a case of people bringing too much, that’s relatively simpler.

I’ve had them say to me they realize they need to gear up. None have said it’s a financial burden, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t.

I’ve sent them links to killer deals on My Trail Co., Outdoor Vitals and other gear that, while not top of the line, is fairly light, compact and at a good price.

I’ll make things like Fozzils bowls crew gear that the troop can buy. One scout had a giant compartmentalized mess kit. Another had stackable metal bowls. All fine for car camping, but not backpacking.

Their packs will work. If they can get decent sleeping bags, pads (trying to get them to do closed cell foam for simplicity) and reasonable clothes, we can address the rest. The troop has tents for shakedowns and we’ll use Philtents if the scouts don’t chose to buy something better.

[David Y]

Closed cell foam is the cheapest, lightest and a good thermal barrier if not the most compact or best cushioning, but Scouts are tougher than we. Many of our Scouts carry Therm-A-Rest closed cell sleep pads: either the Z-Lite long according style @ $35 or the RidgeRest short roll style @ $20.

We use GSI hard plastic 6 ½” bowls @ $2.50 and GSI hard plastic table / soup spoons @ $0.75, one each per camper and they are considered Crew Gear and carried in a freezer-grade plastic bag by the same Scout throughout the trek.

We practice all these techniques on every shakedown / training trips so when we get to Philmont there is no learning curve and less stress.

[Brad P]

I got my son the NEMO Switchback Sleeping Pad when REI had a sale. It’s a nice closed cell foam pad.  He used it at out lock-in. Simplicity is a good thing.

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