Thru Hike Calorie Requirements — I must be crazy? But I have numbers…

[Evan M]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster! Please go easy on me :’) Even though this is Backpacking LIGHT I’m hoping to start a discussion on trail nutrition for those of us who really can’t afford to lose weight on trail – that means no calorie deficits or skimping on food.

I’m beginning to plan for a NOBO AZT Thru and a NOBO Vermont LT Thru. I have an incredibly high base metabolism and have always struggled to maintain my weight; I also have a very low body fat % and can’t afford to lose, well, any on a thru hike. I came across this excellent BPL article (https://backpackinglight.com/how-much-food-should-i-pack-how-to-save-weight-on-backpacking-food-based-on-the-energy-mile-theory/) and I started to do some further research, and a little bit of number crunching – here is a link to my sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JbrvjOEUgnLMtatv3bSmGrRVp8iK3lAnVDyK2TQ7l1c/edit?usp=sharing

I tried to take into account Petzoldt’s Energy Mile Theory, increased basal metabolic rate based on a high intensity lifestyle (backpacking, rowing, etc.), and attempted to calculate the elasticity of Calories/Energy Mile based on a trail’s average % grade. Obviously, this model is based on many assumptions and if I had statistical ability I would try to calculate an error term, tease out endogenous variables like pack weight, all that. But as it stands I’m quite happy with this model.

However, I have a hard time accepting the results. To me, the math makes sense but practically speaking, come on? On the other hand, I do view backpacking as a proper sport and so I do take on-trail nutrition quite seriously. This has raised quite a few questions for me…

In case you don’t feel like poring over my sheet, the general results I’m getting are ~10,000C/day and, assuming 120C/oz avg, ~6lbs of food/day.

Looking forward to good discussion,

Thanks.

[Roger Caffin]

assuming 120C/oz avg, ~6lbs of food/day.
Where did you get the figure of 120 C/oz from?
As a 1st guess, perhaps this is for fresh food, dot dry food?

Typically a weight of 26 – 28 oz/day is sufficient without losing body weight.

Cheers

[Evan M]

120C/oz was just an assumption. I base a lot of my meals on Skurka’s recipes, which range from 110C/oz to 140-150C/oz. I don’t imagine it’s easy to get *much* higher than 150C/oz on average.

And I agree that 26-28oz/day is sufficient – at least that’s what works for most folks. That works for me too, on short trips, though I do often find myself hungry even when packing 32oz/day.

[Roger Caffin]

Ah so.
OK, what sort of food supplies are you carrying?

I have to agree that one can eat more. Towards the end of a long thru-hike we were eating 1.5 days worth of food each day – but we were doing double stages every day by then, in alpine country. We don’t normally travel that fast.

Cheers

[Kerry E]

That has you burning 633 Calories per mile. If people could really burn that many Calories hiking, it would be the hottest weight loss craze ever. I think you’ve made a couple mistakes calculating this.

First, you calculate energy miles based on elevation and multiply it by the Calories/mile you calculated you’ll burn based on average slope. This means you’re taking the elevation into account twice.

Second, the number you got for average grade is totally wrong. The number you have is the average slope of the terrain you are on. 13 degrees is actually a 23% grade but that’s not how steep the trail your hiking on is. If the trail is traversing a steep hill, you’re gaining no elevation but caltopo is counting it as you being on steep terrain so that figure is essentially useless for your purposes. A better estimate is (Total Elevation Gain)/(5280*Total Miles). For the Long trail that would be 67500/(5280*272) = 4.7% grade.

You could estimate your total hiking calories either by using 205.5*(Energy Miles). This would make the long trail 205.5*380 = 78,090. Or you could use (18.05*(% Grade) + 205.5)*(Trail Miles) which would make the long trail (18.05*4.7+205.5)*272 = 78,971.

Those values will give you a slightly more reasonable Calories/Day value of 6167 or 6216 depending on the method you use (they’re within 1% of each other so the difference doesn’t really matter).

I’d still question the 205.5 value you have. That seems a bit high in my experience and I can’t figure out where you got it.

For what it’s worth, I was in a similar boat of not wanting to lose weight while thru hiking the AT. My mileage was fairly varied but when I was doing around 15 miles/day, I was eating ~4500 Calories and maintaining my weight. You’re slightly bigger than I am but before doing the math, I would’ve estimated you’d need ~5000-6000 Calories per day. I think that ultimately you’ll need to figure out for yourself what your own unique needs are but I’m reasonably confident that you are right to question the initial 10,000 Calories/day value you got.

[Evan M]

Kerry,

Thank you for your response, and for confirming I was in fact crazy. I figured I’d made mistakes in calculating, it just didn’t seem right at all practically speaking. I’m a math person – to an extent, haha. I guess I was punching above my weight.

Well, back to the drawing board. I’ll have to update that sheet and quit racking my brain over how it would even be possible for a backpacker to eat that much. The Mountain and Michael Phelps eat 10,000 calories a day for crying out loud.

I’m also glad to hear you were able to maintain your weight, all the discussions I’ve seen seem to depend on using up body fat and losing weight by bringing too little food on purpose. It’s been hard to find good advice!

[Evan M]

Also, 205.5 is the average value for calories on flat ground taken derived from the BPL article that inspired this little exercise. It’s denoted by the ^ in the notes: (231+180)/2.

Can I ask what your strategy was for food on your thru? Or, nutrition in particular? Or did you find you didn’t need to bother too much with macros? Unfortunately, I’m also plant-based so gorging myself in towns would be pretty difficult in the best of times, and now with COVID sticking around until 2022 possibly? Hm… And with the way things are going with the environment and life being pretty ephemeral to begin with, I’m just not sure I’m willing to wait up.

Thanks.

[Kerry E]

I’m actually vegan myself so had the same issue of not being able to gorge myself in trail towns. It get’s pretty annoying hearing all the other hikers fantasize about all the pizza and burgers they’re planning on eating when they get to town while I know I’m going to be eating the same old stuff I had on the trail.

My general strategy for nutrition was just to hit my macros and take a multivitamin (I don’t think that would be a great lifelong diet but I figured my body would survive 6 months of it). I’d try to get as many fruits and veggies in town as I could and would sometimes take a few fresh items like that to eat on my first day on the trail. I’d also buy a half gallon of almond milk whenever I was in town and drink that since it’s fortified with calcium and my multivitamin didn’t have that.

Hitting macros wasn’t too terribly difficult. Carbs and fats are super easy. Protein can be a little more difficult depending on the town. I was able to find TVP in a few towns in Vermont so that might be an option on the LT. I also would get the Santa Fe instant refried beans mailed to me (those have a good deal of fiber as well which is severely lacking in most hiker diets). You can also usually find things like dry roasted edamame/chick peas. It can be tough to eat those in large quantities as they make your mouth super dry but they are good. Other than that, a lot of things have vegan protein added. Clif builder bars were a favorite of mine as they can be found literally everywhere (they’ll melt if weather is hot). Plenty of other energy bars have some amount of protein added. Nature Valley makes some granola that has protein added. Low fat peanut butter sometimes has pea protein added. Couscous frequently has protein added. I’ve even carried vegan protein powders with me. You can either mix the powder in with things like oatmeal or bring a Gatorade bottle to mix them with water. I’d also frequently carry Tofurky or Field Roast sausage. Those are a little heavy as far as backpacking food goes but I’d generally eat them first so I wouldn’t be carrying them too long. You can always find something to get you by even if it’s not particularly tasty. I think I averaged ~100-120g of protein a day and it wouldn’t have been too hard to go higher if I wanted.

Now, eating that much food does present a challenge. 1500 calories in one sitting is tough for me and doing that 3 times a day is exhausting. I generally tried to consume a lot of my calories as snacks. Stopping to eat 300-500 Calories every hour doesn’t feel bad and if you hike for 8 hours, that can be 2400-4000 Calories. Add in a 1000 Calorie breakfast and a 1000 Calorie dinner and you’ve hit your goal. I still felt like I was constantly shoving food in my mouth and other hikers would laugh when they saw my food bag and tell me I brought too much (I always managed to eat it all).

As a note about food weight. I found that generally 1000 Calories was 0.5 pounds. Yeah, you can find foods that are better and if you aren’t careful, you can end up with foods that are heavier but for me, that was a good balance of having food that I could actually bring myself to eat and not carry too much unnecessary weight.

Hope that helps.

[Roger Caffin]

. I’d also buy a half gallon of almond milk whenever I was in town
Bearing in mind that almond ‘milk’ is one of the more environmentally destructive food fads of the year.
And it isn’t ‘milk’ either.

Cheers

[Evan M]

Bearing in mind that almond ‘milk’ is one of the more environmentally destructive food fads of the year.
And it isn’t ‘milk’ either.

I’ll bite, haha. But pedantry aside, I’d be happy to bring this sort of conversation to BPL. It’s one I haven’t seen in all my lurking.

At this point I’m almost totally unconcerned with the ethics of almond “milk” or taking on any further degree of personal responsibility given that the powers that be have the economic power to make necessary changes tomorrow. All the rest are red herrings, I’m afraid.

Now, palm oil on the other hand? Oh no…

[HkNewman]

My first year of long distance hiking, I craved food, but afterwards, it’s actually fresh greens I lust after.   Plenty of calorie rich foods out there (chips are biggies, especially corn type chips, cookies, etc..), but your taste buds can do weirdo things.. .

Example, I once ate lunch next to a young German woman who mixed tuna with chocolate Nutella on a flour tortilla, so hiker hunger can be a culinary horror show.   Another time with another group of Germans, one woman cooked a sort of cheddar/pepperoni filled slathered burrito basted in it’s own pepperoni sauce on her stove/pot combos deep pan cover of some sort.  Followed by coffee and cigarettes like they were on a sidewalk cafe in Berlin or Vienna.  I felt outclassed munching my energy bar and flavored water drink mix.

Then again my titanium pot-stove combo was much lighter than her set up, plus I could’ve done a cold tortilla/cheddar roll up and called it done with no extra cookery/fuel needed.  Pros and cons.

Point is you will  just have to listen to your own body and decide how much “cookware” you’ll want to bring.

[HkNewman]

..I’m beginning to plan for a NOBO AZT Thru and a NOBO Vermont LT Thru

A little more to the point, I’ve found my more savory noodle dishes (quick cook fettuccine noodles w/olive oil and various cheeses) really grossed me out when day time temps were high.  Other long distance hikers have said the same for the most part – high hiking temperatures often affect how taste is perceived.

YMMV but I’ve found  “instant” rice dishes, especially combined with dehydrated refried beans and cheddar, were really welcome at the end of a hot day of hiking.  Add a bag of chili cheese flavored Frito corn chips (a massive calorie bomb on their own) and you’ve got some Southwesternly heaven going on (slice a jalapeño in their if you can truly take the fire).

Potato based meals can work too.  Idahoans mixed with a packet of Buffalo flavor chicken or sriracha/Thai pepper tuna can work.  May mix it up with the minute rice instead of potatoes?

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