The Kelty external frame backpack thread

[Crow]

@neist, great point, though with the 115L capacity of the Serac packbag, it’s definitely volumetrically huge!  I don’t think I’d take it on a solo trip.  I bought a Vargo Ti-Arc a while back, and for a UL pack, it was pretty phenomenal!  The pack is advertised at being suitable for up to 30lbs, and I found that to be perfectly accurate.  It was fantastic with up to that weight.  But with 35lbs it stopped being so nice as the harness simply is not that padded nor is the frame all that beefy.  However for a lighterweight load it’s a great option.

The cuben fiber version is under 2 pounds at 1lb 15oz.  Note it lacks side pockets and shock cord on the back.  The standard version that I tried weighs 2lb 6oz.  An external frame pack does not need to be heavy, or designed for large loads.  Personally I find them preferable from a simplicity and versatility standpoint.  The ZPacks Arc Blast/Haul are interesting options too, not quite an external frame but appear to bring along some of the advantages in a hybrid approach.

How much does your Alite pack weigh?  I don’t see a weight advertised.  Also, just curious, what is the mechanism used to roll up and hold in place the loose ends of the webbing shown in this picture?

[Nick Gatel]

The zPack ArcHaiul pack is an external, albeit a rather light frame, as are the Seek Outside Paradox packs that several BPL members are now using for extended trips or hunting.

Colin Fletcher almost singlehandedly killed the external frame market in 1984 when he published The Complete Walker III and revealed he had switched to the internal framed Gregory Cassin. The Fletcher faithful dumped their externals, Cassin sales went through the roof, and Wayne Gregory got rich. Fletcher’s Cassin weighed 5.75lbs stripped down, but with the external pockets tipped the scale at 7lbs!

I never looked at a Trailwise close up. I bought my first Kelty before I ever heard of Fletcher, and saw no reason to change and join the Fletcher faithful.

Today I mostly use McHale internals, which are really fairly light when you consider how well they are built and how well they carry.

You can easily achieve that “UL classification” for base weight using an external frame pack, like my Kelty D4, but what’s the point? Of course people are going to chime in and say you aren’t a XX-Light backpacker if you use a vintage backpack.

[Jonathon Self]

Campsaver (where I bought mine) lists the weight as 4 lbs 5.6 oz. That’s probably accurate. It’s pretty burly. The frame is definitely more robust than the Kelty 65 I had. But the pack doesn’t have load lifters, and the belt, while quite wide, isn’t all that padded either. I doubt I’d want to push it much beyond the 35lb range. Even with these concessions, I really like mine. It has no zippers (plus for me), and it was pretty cheap with the Campsaver discount (I’m a student, so 20% discount).

I’m not too sure what that mechanism is because I’ve never had to unroll them. :) I’ll check and report back.

[Crow]

“Colin Fletcher almost singlehandedly killed the external frame market in 1984 when he published The Complete Walker III and revealed he had switched to the internal framed Gregory Cassin. The Fletcher faithful dumped their externals, Cassin sales went through the roof, and Wayne Gregory got rich.”

Ouch, I had no idea that he switched to internal frames, nor that he had so much influence over the community!

Personally, I was frustrated trying different internal frame options from Osprey, Deuter, and other big brands (this was all before I discovered BPL).  Later after more research, I was debating whether to try McHale, Seek Outside, Mystery Ranch, or perhaps an older Dana Design pack.  I got a great deal on the Vargo but resold it after finding it unsuitable for my needs, then bought the Super Tioga on a whim not expecting much.  I liked it so much, that I thought I’d stick with it.  Then in search of a metal cam lock buckle to put on it, I bought the XL Serac on eBay, and now here we are.

[Nick Gatel]

IMO, fit is much more critical with an internal. The biggest factor is that you have to take out the stays and contour them to the back, and for some people, like me, with lots of curvature, adjusting the stays can shorten them a couple inches.

I gained an incredible amount of knowledge from Dan McHale when I went through the demo process. We had several phone calls as I had to send him pictures several times so we could tweak the fit. I think he got frustrated with me at one point because I wasn’t adjusting the stays enough… he reiterated that his stays will maintain their shape with the adjustments. Once I did this it fit perfectly.

[Crow]

Here is a picture of a Serac with an additional pocket on the lid flap, and the Kelty logo mounted sideways.  Stated as being purchased new in 1973, but maybe it was a customization?  The diamond-shape attachment leather on the left center is unique as well.

Here is another Serac, older than the one I have I think, with different style of leather attachment patches with only two slots instead of four, in black instead of brown:

Somebody else decided to drill extra holes into the upper bar to mount load lifter straps farther out than my current solution:

Here are a couple pictures of the later and larger Serac Expedition, in green:

[Nathan Meyerson]

Great thread! The last couple of months I’ve been scouring yardsales and thrift stores in hopes of finding external frames for cheap. I’ve been pondering a bit about building custom harnesses and X-pac packbags for them. Haven’t gotten around to it yet. I also scored a Vargo Ti-Arc frame sans packbag that I need to build something around.

[Todd Stough]

@nathan  I was hesitant to ask.  I actually have 2 old frames that I’d like to get into use.  The suspension and packbags are junk.

What are some affordable options for upgrading?  I can make a new bag, it’s the suspension that concerns me.

I see rei has mountain hardware straps and belts for pretty cheap, would be about $20 for both.  I suppose I could figure out a way to mount them?

Any ideas?

 

Here is the straps https://www.rei.com/product/844654/rei-crestrail-65-shoulder-straps-womens

Hip belt https://www.rei.com/product/844653/rei-crestrail-65-hipbelt-womens

[Crow]

@brewguy – Kelty will sell you newly-made hip belt and shoulder straps for under $50.  However I checked recently and they are out of stock until June.

You may be able to order a Cache Hauler suspension without buying the whole thing, I don’t know.

Call them, don’t E-mail.  E-mails seem to get ignored. :(

[Tipi Walter]

Speaking of externals, I’d be amiss without showing the pack I used extensively from 1980 to 2001—the old aluminum framed North Face BackMagic.

Here it is in 2001 after 20 years of hard use.  (With my old Air Force name tag sewn on the back).  I removed the two side pockets to achieve a better balance but should’ve left them on.

I was out on a trip several years ago and ran into a guy using his Dad’s BackMagic in almost new condition.  This shows the frame with the Zytek flexible hipbelt attachment.

And then a couple years ago I was pulling another trip and found this guy in 2010 with a brand new BackMagic from 1980!  It’s hard to believe he was going out for just ONE NIGHT.

[Tipi Walter]

Does anyone remember the Kelty Sleeping Bag Carrier?  ULers would love it—a zippered pouch bag with two web shoulder straps and two more narrow straps to hang your sleeping bag.  I bought it in 1973.

Here’s the Kelty in repose showing shoulder straps and a couple bottom straps for the sleeping bag.

Here’s the Kelty in action wrapped around a bedroll with a Ridgerest inside, circa 1977.

And no discussion of Kelty is complete without mentioning the “poor man’s Kelty”—CampTrails.  Here is my backpacking buddy Johhny B with his stuffed CampTrails on the left.  (The Kelty Ultra Tioga is on the right).

Here is Little Mitten on the South Fork Citico trail with her women’s Kelty 4100 or something.

[Tipi Walter]

Here’s a commercial pic of the old Kelty carrier:

https://books.google.com/books?id=CuQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=%22kelty+sleeping+bag+carrier%22&source=bl&ots=ShVViXKps4&sig=xk5390zWQRocz0vwJVhWdcP1Jow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj16_GZs6XLAhWCSCYKHXYRBm4Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=%22kelty%20sleeping%20bag%20carrier%22&f=false

[Nathan Meyerson]

@brewguy. Not sure about affordable options, as I’d sew them myself. I can make you a harness if you know exactly what you need.

[Paul McLaughlin]

My Trailwise frame, when I bought it (sans bag, made my own) in 73 or 74, had the crossover straps as in the photo above. Eventually they wore out and I replaced with homemade shoulder straps connected more conventionally directly to the crossbar. Never noticed a difference between the two styles and the simpler ones are lighter. Carried heavier weights with the homemade strap setup (and homemade hipbelt) because of kids.

Here’s a formidable group of adventurers at the start of a trip in ’74. Two Kelty frames with custom bags, one off brand, and me on the right with my Trailwise and the first bag I made for it. World’s largest side pockets I think – I had such big pockets that I could put almost all of my gear and clothing except sleeping bag into the pockets – almost the whole main compartment was for two weeks worth of food.

[Crow]

Love the pictures @tipiwalter & @paul-1!

[Todd Stough]

Nathan I appreciate that.  I was thinking about making some too.  To be honest I don’t really know what I need, I’ll have to look them over and see what would work best.   The one currently just has a nylon strap for a hip belt, no padding or anything.

I’ll look it over and get some pictures, maybe you guys can help me with a plan.

[Gordon Gray]

Both of my daughters started with Kelty external frame kid sized packs.  One I scored at the thrift store for $8 and the other on CL for $35.  They have since upgraded after proving they enjoy backpacking.

We did some mods on both.  One just needed a sternum strap and the other needed both sternum strap and waist belt.

[Tipi Walter]

Gordon—You Kelty pic reminds me of the top shelf to the Jansport packs—

Here’s a vintage Jansport I saw on a recent trip into the NC mountains.  Totally different pack bag and frame than the Keltys.  Btw, Murray Pletz and Skip Yowell founded Jansport and was named after Pletz’s wife Janis Lewis, who helped sew together the early packs.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I remember in the early ’60s when I saw my first Kelty. It instantly made ALL other backpacks look ancient.

That Kelty pack and frame with the nicely padded hip belt and shoulder straps looked like a vision from the future of backpacking. Lacking the money for one I got a Camp Trails frame and pack.

In the late ’70s The North Face came out with the internal framed Ruthsac and by that time my Camp Trails frame welds had begun to crack so I moved on to the internal framed Ruthsack,

then a Gregory Wind River (a great medium weight pack)

a Dana Terraplane (stupid heavy but a nice pack),

an REI Cruise UL 60 (my 1st truly light pack),

and now an Osprey EXOS 58 (VERY comfortable).

[Crow]

I’ve taken to packing the tent and all else into the packbag, stretching the lid over the top of it all, rather than lashing the tent to the top.  With the Serac, this leaves me more headroom.  I thought i would miss the long side pocket that the Serac Expedition and Super Tioga have, but I was able to just pack my tent poles upright in the main compartment.  They do extend an inch or two above the top of the bag, but it’s not a big deal particularly as it will end up with enough stuffed in there to have a bulge on the top anyways.    The Serac does not feature an extension sleeve like the Super Tioga and many internal frame packs, but it’s totally unnecessary anyways since the packbag is not waterproof – I use an Ultra-Sil pack liner to keep everything dry that can extend taller than the top of the compartment as needed – the entire dry bag is lighter than a 420D sleeve and additional drawstring would be.  The dry bag serves the same function as the collar of keeping gear from falling out, in addition to keeping it dry.  I have split up the tent such that the poles are on their own as mentioned, the inner tent is kept in it’s own stuff sack, and the outer tent and footprint (which stay attached together get their own stuff sack, which will be packed underneath the pack liner dry sack if they are wet.

With every change of pack I end up rethinking my gear choices as well as organization.  Always fun. :)

[Crow]

How I’ve ended up packing up the Serac, instead of lashing anything on top, using a Sea to Summit dry pack liner to help hold everything in as well as dry.  Without food, everything fits into the pack bag well enough:

With more stuff piled in the top, the liner bag helps contain things:

Frees up lots of headroom, and maybe I can live without that top bar?

[Crow]

@tipiwalter, that North Face pack is well-used!

I finally bid farewell to my old crappy Quiksilver pack this weekend:

A lot of miles and days in that pack…but it was junk.  Good riddance!

[Crow]

Ended up getting the second older size large Serac – it’s hip belt and shoulder belts feel soft and brand new.  The black plastic pieces on the bottom of the frame are completely unscratched and so it appears unused.  The packbag label has a name written on it, but I am guessing that the pack only got worn once or twice, never set down, and kept packed away.  I figured it would be worth getting the second one to have spare parts for the future, as these aren’t terribly easy to come by.

 

Comparing the harnesses…it occurs to me that since I’ve raised up the hip belt on the right one, the frame sits lower down, so I need the top bar mounted into the higher position to not bump my head.  Using the original placement of the original harness with the left one, the lower top bar setting was not an issue.  The two frames are identical, despite the angle they are sitting at making the look slightly different in this photo:

The harness is like new.  A whole different experience than the rock-hard ones I had on the first Serac I got:

Different Kelty labels – it seems that the older style was only used until 1972, but I thought the Serac was introduced in 1973?  In any case, it appears that I have a 1972 or earlier Serac:

Due to the curved frame of the Serac, mounting our umbrellas directly to the frame didn’t work as well as it did on the Tioga.  So, I picked up a thick leather belt at a local thrift store, and used pieces to make mounting points on each side.  No actual leatherworking experience or tools, so it was a lot of work, but I think it turned out well:

Success!

[Crow]

@ngatel – I just did some searching and realized it was your website that claimed the Serac was introduced in 1973.  Any insights into the earlier style Serac with black leather and earlier-style logo shown above?

[Nick Gatel]

@ngatel – I just did some searching and realized it was your website that claimed the Serac was introduced in 1973. Any insights into the earlier style Serac with black leather and earlier-style logo shown above?

I am almost positive it was ’73. Your new one is earlier than mine with the older logo, plus both ends of the belt buckle appear to be all metal. Mine has a plastic lock cam – of course someone could have changed it… even the sales person could have recommended it. Those replacement buckles were sold by everyone including REI.

We really don’t know when they changed the logo patch, and it is probably safe to guess that they changed when the used up all the old ones.

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