Tent Heater options – candle/alcohol/propane, what to use?

[Christoph Blank]

@Roger, that’s true – the article where I found this didn’t explain the reasoning behind it. It just complicates my search for a good shelter :) As always, there is of course no single thing doing it all.

I’m not sure if the Akto should be compared to the Tarptent Notch. Of course the Notch has better ventilation, simply because it only has partial closed inner and is not made for winter use specifically. From my perspective those are 2 different kinds of tents.

[James Marco]

A single walled tent, well sealed to the ground, with a low bottom vent (around 16-20sqin) and a smaller top vent (around 12-16 sqin) will warm up about 30F(average, it is not a linear scale, rather a comfort scale) with a small SVEA 123r on the low (lowest setting with an all blue flame) at 0F ambient. Two bodies will add another 10-15F to the tents heat profile after about 1/2 hour. The stove will burn about 3-5 hours depending on the exact setting…it depends on how it is tuned up…and burns about 4.5oz of WG. I did this several times with my brother out ice fishing in the ADK’s when I was younger.

The tent set up was a small single walled “pup” tent. We used a disposable painters drop cloth under that, then folded over the top and ends. (Usually just buried in snow chunks with the door and vents left open.)   We tore a hole for the vents and wrapped around the doors…blocked the wind, anyway. We also used a couple old quilts on the floor to get away from the ice along with a couple old blankets and CCF pads. Do not underestimate the ability of the ground to suck heat out of you, regardless of the air temp in the tent. Ice can and will get colder than 32F. With the newer pads, you will be fine.

Open the door to check the lines, you get cold again. So, every half hour-45 minutes we would head out and trudge around, then play cards till 0300-0400. At times it got too warm.

 

[Catherine Harley]

If you decide on an Akto – consider the ‘sand’ colour. I really like it. In mountain/rocky terrain it may blend in better than green.

[Christoph Blank]

@Richard Nisley and @Roger – could you tell me what to look for in a “good” CO meter? Personally I cannot distinguish cheaper ones like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/KKmoon-Handheld-Monoxide-Precision-0-1000ppm/dp/B00XXDMEEQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473618310&sr=8-1&keywords=carbon+meter from the previously mentioned Otis TOCSIN 3 for pilots or any other more expensive devices. The price range seems rather random..

[Richard Nisley]

Christoph,

First is accuracy of <= 1 PPM. Your referenced unit is 10 PPM

Second is real time response. Your referenced unit is 60 seconds

[Christoph Blank]

@richard nisley, thanks a lot! Could you maybe link your device again? I think I saw similar ones but with other specs than that

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Christoph

It might be worth remembering that I do not carry a CO monitor with me: I rely on the quality of the stove instead. And I have never heard of any other BPL member carrying one either, except maybe for experiments. We try to not carry gear we really do not need.

Tents – there’s a lot of personal preference involved.

Cheers

 

[Richard Nisley]

Blow out a match and hold it under the unit; the CO will instantaneously spike to reflect the emitted CO.

[Christoph Blank]

That makes sense – I just thought that if I buy one for measurements anyway, I could get one in pocket format. As mentioned I’m a pilot myself so this would be handy.

However, it’s quite hard to find such devices in europe. Checked what is available in the US and if you look at realtime/accuracy I can hardly find affordable ones.. Apparently they are limited in use to two years as well.

[Christoph Blank]

@richard, thank you – I just found it even cheaper, weird, but I think I’ll get one.
Couldn’t find anything pocket sized

[Christoph Blank]

@richard nisley, one more question just out of interest. What would be your preferred shelter if you would get a solo double wall tent? I’m torn between options as the Hilleberg Akto is rather heavy and people complained about venting problems, which is relevant in this case.

[Justin Baker]

““the ideal shelter for iceland is a single wall solo tent”.
Well, yes, but what does he mean? This is a ‘single wall solo tent’:”

Coming from Andrew Skurka, I imagine he was referring to a pyramid tent like the mountain laurel designs duomid he used on his alaska trip.

[Richard Nisley]

The BSR-24 (4.7 oz.), in combination with the MSR Whisperlite, will raise the ambient temperature of an unvented double wall shelter, with 1 or more occupants, a uniformly distributed ~30F degrees at foot level do to direct radiation; ~15F mid-level through re-radiation from the perimeter; and ~30F + degrees head level do to convection. The floor must be protected with tin foil over foam or the stove needs to be raised on a non-flammable platform. No flame quenching resulting in increased CO was detected. The stainless steel oxidizes after about 1/2 hour to increase the emissivity to an effective level for subsequent uses. It is not effective for use with a single occupant in a single wall pyramid shelter with a roof vent.

 

 

The Kovea Fireball (19.9 oz.) is effective in both a double wall shelter and a single wall pyramid shelter with a roof vent. The CO level was measured at a safe 22 PPM. It will raise the mid-level (core) surface temperature of a single occupant ~50F in a ventilated pyramid.

[Christoph Blank]

@richard nisley, that’s interesting. Does this depend on the stoves used, or do these covers generally hinder performance? I bought both covers for testing, the BRS-24 and a larger one that seems to be common.

I also wondered about the flame quenching issues with such covers.

[Richard Nisley]

The BSR-24 radiation pattern will be the same with any stove but the maximum temperature and CO emission will vary. The radiation pattern is what limits the effectiveness of this technology to double wall shelters.

They did a very good job designing this unit as well as selecting the optimal material. More heat is radiated from the side (581F) than from the top (353F) do to the internal top baffle. The 150F ground temperature dictates that you can’t put it on a tent floor but, I don’t know how they could have avoided that.

[Christoph Blank]

@richard nisley, thanks a lot for your insight! Is there any benefit then? Like, due to the increased and heated surface, is it more fuel efficient? Because otherwise I assume it would make sense to just leave it at home and take only the stove – e.g. Kovea Spider also in double wall tents?

[Richard Nisley]

Christoph,

You will need to measure the internal ambient temperature at different levels to be sure but, THEORETICALLY your comfort level should be higher with the BSR radiant converter. This is due to the direct foot level radiation. Secondarily, the shelter perimeter re-radiation will provide a more uniform mid-level heating envelope than a stove-only top-down convection layer where your upper body is hot and your lower body is cold.

[Christoph Blank]

@Richard Nisley, that’s interesting, I will soon test both of the covers.
One more thing: I don’t have a Kovea Spider, but wanted to replace my existing stoves with two stoves: An invertable lightweight canister stove for winter and an ultralight screw-on stove for summer use.

Currently I’m planning to get a Fire Maple 118 and maybe replace the heavier parts with the 117T parts (in case anyone is interested in this: http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10569
As a summer stove I was looking at the BRS-3000T which seems quite popular.

@Richard and @Roger I read most of the articles on stove and ppm output/efficiency now. While the Kovea Spider and the FMS 117T/118 seem to be almost similar (except for the wider top), the BRS-3000T is quite different, the flame points straight up.

I recall the “angled” burners were better, in these articles. Thus I’m asking myself if I should better get a different one, alternatives are the Hornet FMS-300T or FMS-116T.

Could you maybe give me some advice before buying the new ones? Now that I read so much I’m curious.. especially regarding the possible double use as a heater and with heater covers (CO output)..

Edit: @Roger Caffin I just saw that you were involved in these stove mods I linked to, or quoted at least :)

[Roger Caffin]

The BRS-3000T is a bit of a cult stove here at BPL. It is the lightest and the cheapest decent on the market, while working very well. It does not have infinite life, but nothing does. Some people here buy several at a time! Yes, I do use them myself. The flame is OK, and the CO is OK.

Remote inverted canister – I am hopelessly biased here. See
https://backpackinglight.com/diy-backpacking-stove-vortex-caffin-part1/
and on to part5.

Cheers

[Christoph Blank]

Hi Roger,

Haha, I thought you will post that – I found the articles and your experiments in the meantime. I’m halfway through, reading it, really learned a lot the last days.

So, the obvious question, if you would not build your own, which choice would you make for the inverted stove or mod? :D

[Roger Caffin]

The Fire Maple FMS-118 is OK but heavy (double the weight of my stove). The FMS-117 is NOT for inverted use.

The Kovea Spider is OK but even heavier.

Western companies are all either massively overweight or just OEM copies of the Asian stoves. Give up on them.

My stove is for sale as well. You can email me.

Cheers

 

[Christoph Blank]

@Roger Caffin, I think I will get one, it looks interesting :) But I’ll read through your articles about it first. Thanks for letting me know!

Regarding the FMS, I meant replacing the heavy parts of the 118 with the 117T parts.

[Roger Caffin]

replacing the heavy parts of the 118 with the 117T parts.

It is not clear that will work. The 117 does not have any preheat mechanism, so you cannot safely invert the canister with it. If you swap the stove base of the 118 out and put the 117 in … no joy.

Cheers

 

[Christoph Blank]

Ah, I thought people just replaced the parts and that works.. alright then I have to check again.

[DAN-Y]

If you choose alcohol, these are available with lids, email me. Hold 4.5 ounces of fuel. Lids seal tight.

 

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