Tarptent ProTrail Li… Hmmm

[bradmacmt]

Tarptent has really raised its own bar, and it got me to thinking about the kind of solo backpacking I do. Much of it is above timberline, and as those of you know who have spent time in Montana, that can mean sudden and unexpected heavy wind, rain, sleet and snow… in summer!

Said all that to say, I’ve been mulling over the concept of a ProTrail Li. Seems like this hunkered down TT would shed the kind of conditions I’m describing better than the Aeon, while still being about the same finished weight.

I prefer a side entry door, but I’ve spent so many decades with front entry, it’s no deal killer, and in the name of stability (and weight) I’d be more than happy to deal with it.

I did some quick math based on the Notch and Notch Li… the Dyneema version’s weight reduction is right at 29%. Using that as a basis, a ProTrail Li would come in right around 18.5 oz’s.

Not to steal any thunder from the Aeon’s introduction (what a fine creation!)… but you know how it is, once the wheels are turning it’s hard to turn them off. :)

Thought’s?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

If I was picking a tent for a bad weather/hunkered down scenario I’d be looking at a double wall. What you’re suggesting is only 1oz lighter than the Notch Li which is a double wall and has side entry.  I guess the ProTrail has advantages too though (e.g. more floor area).

[Lester Moore]

Never used the Protrail, but you can get a partial solid inner for the Notch for cutting the wind. And you can pitch the notch down tight to the ground all the way around. You might also ask Henry if he can add mid-panel tie downs loops so that you can stake out the side panels in exposed locations. That would give you 8 tie downs on the Notch (both sides, both vestibules, both apexes and two mid-panel points).

[Serge Giachetti]

Been having similar thoughts @bradmacmt.

I mostly camp in the alpine and I want a shelter that sheds wind better (mainly, more quietly) than my zpacks duplex.

Someone on readit mentioned from a communication with Henry Shires, that if well staked the statospire and the scarp are their most wind worthy models.

I’ll probably start another thread, but I’m curious to know people’s experience using the stratospire above treeline and how taut/quiet the pitch is.

[Turley]

Back in September I contacted Tarptent regarding a possible ProTrail in DCF. This was Henry’s response:
“The ProTrail patterns don’t play well with the limited (54”) Dyneema fabric width. Just too much waste. I can say that we’re working on something that will be well worth the wait (of a few more months).” Guess that something is the Aeon.

[Ian]

You’re reading my mind Brad.  I’d love to see a DCF Protrail come to market.

Having used both front and side entry shelters and being 6’3″, the conclusion I’ve come to is that I’d rather just deal with the front entry option for a couple seconds when crawling in vs having the wall of a mid inches from my face and feet all night.

The Aeon is awfully tempting.  My go-to pack is a MLD Burn.  I could make the Aeon work but I prefer a strutless shelter and storing it in an oversized stuff sack so I can smush it around things in my pack.

I’ve been toying around with the idea of packing my burn differently than how I do it now to make the Aeon work vertically in the pack, by packing my food around it.  I think I’d prefer a DCF protrail as a shelter though.

Either way, I really like the design of the Aeon and applaud TT’s work on it.

[Graham F]

“The Aeon is awfully tempting.  My go-to pack is a MLD Burn.  I could make the Aeon work but I prefer a strutless shelter and storing it in an oversized stuff sack so I can smush it around things in my pack.” Me too except for the (same size) pack- Wilderness Threadworks Sonder.

My conundrum to a T.

 

[bradmacmt]

If I was picking a tent for a bad weather/hunkered down scenario I’d be looking at a double wall. What you’re suggesting is only 1oz lighter than the Notch Li which is a double wall and has side entry. I guess the ProTrail has advantages too though (e.g. more floor area).

Dan, thanks for the feedback, here’s where I’m currently at:

I use a Nemo Hornet 1P with a 4 oz Tyvek Footprint. I swapped out the factory stuff sacks to Tarptent sacks, swapped out two of the six Nemo pegs to MSR mini-groundhogs, and got the all-up weight to 33 oz’s exactly. It’s shockingly solid in wind, and I’ve yet to get any real condensation in it, even in heavy rain, something most 1P tents are prone to. It’s a great little tent above timberline in wind.

I don’t use trekking poles so the Notch Li will give me a weight penalty.

Here’s how it breaks down for me:

Notch Li – 20.0 oz’s
2 qty Adjustable Carbon Pole from Ruta Locura – 8 oz’s
Tyvek Footprint – 4.0 oz’s

Total – 32.0 oz’s (2 lb’s 0 oz’s).

**Adding a partial solid interior would bump it 2 oz’s, making it 1 oz heavier than my Nemo**

The Notch Li is only 1 oz’s less than my Nemo Hornet 1P with Tyvek (2 lb’s 1 oz). Definitely not worth the cash outlay  to save 1 oz! Using Trekking poles is the only way to justify the Notch Li

A Protrail Li would break down like this:

Protrail Li – 18.5 oz’s
Carbon Poles from Ruta Locura – 4.5 oz’s
Tyvek Footprint – 4.0 oz’s

Total – 27.0 oz’s (1 lb 11 oz’s).

That’s 6 oz’s less than my Nemo Hornet 1P with Tyvek (2 lb’s 1 oz).

For a thru hike it would be worth the switch, and I’m guessing the Protrail would be more robust in wind than the Aeon. But that’s just a guess.

 

[bradmacmt]

Lester, Serge, CG, Ian, and Graham, thanks for sharing your thoughts…

[Mark]

No way would i pick a .51oz cf shelter if i knew there was going to be strong winds, no mate who made it or what the design was.

[bradmacmt]

No way would i pick a .51oz cf shelter if i knew there was going to be strong winds, no matter who made it or what the design was.

Mark, I’m not well versed in Cuben Fiber, would you care to expand on your thought about the fabric weight vs. wind? Thanks.

[J-L]

You can save just under an ounce on the Nemo Hornet 1P by replacing the standard shock-cord in the poles with 1/8” shock-cord. It’s very easy to do. 1/8” shock-cord has worked fine on my MYOG tent for several years and over 100 nights.

On topic, I would be very interested in a double-walled/modular ProTrail Li. I like that the Protrail can folded and rolled to any size you want. And that it can be setup using only 4 stakes (more needed for a storm probably, but 4 is good to start with).

[bradmacmt]

You can save just under an ounce on the Nemo Hornet 1P by replacing the standard shock-cord in the poles with 1/8” shock-cord. It’s very easy to do. 1/8” shock-cord has worked fine on my MYOG tent for several years and over 100 nights.

Great tip, thanks John. I’ve actually considered sending the Hornet Al poles to Fibraplex for a carbon dupe. I have a set for my MSR Hubb Hp, and they do shed quite a bit of weight.

I’d beef up the ferrules tho…

[Bill in Roswell]

I’ve been using polycryo sheet under my Tarptent since 2006. I can’t justify a reason for using Tyvek or similar (I can get it free). Seems like weight gain for no reason. JMHO. I’m sure there is a reason for using the heavier Tyvek as I can get free scraps, like covering a picnic table at a campground. The polycryo is lighter, packs smaller, cleans easier……I used it under my Protrail and Cloudburst.

If a Cuben Protrail ever gets at least a mock up, I hope they’ll make the beak 3 inches longer in the center, giving a pointed bow into the wind versus the current wide unsupported door.

 

[bradmacmt]

I’ve been using polycryo sheet under my Tarptent since 2006. I can’t justify a reason for using Tyvek or similar (I can get it free). Seems like weight gain for no reason. JMHO. I’m sure there is a reason for using the heavier Tyvek as I can get free scraps, like covering a picnic table at a campground. The polycryo is lighter, packs smaller, cleans easier……I used it under my Protrail and Cloudburst.

I prefer something more robust like Tyvek because I prefer NOT to sleep in a tent when weather permits… the Tyvek footprint makes for a good cowboy camping experience with a Neoair on top. Having said that, I’m going to order a few yards of 1.1 oz 20d Silnyon ripstop to replace my Tyvek ground cloth.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

If a Cuben Protrail ever gets at least a mock up,

It did, on screen and on layout, and it just doesn’t play well with the limited 54in Dyneema fabric width. Way too much fabric $$ waste.

[bradmacmt]

It did, on screen and on layout, and it just doesn’t play well with the limited 54in Dyneema fabric width. Way too much fabric $$ waste.

Thanks for the head’s up Henry…

[Randy Martin]

Best shelter for alpine wind/weather is the Duomid.  Get an inner if you want but in the Alpine it’s not really necessary.

[Bill in Roswell]

Brad, using Tyvek for cowboy camping makes sense. Sleeping under the stars is always awesome.

Cheers
Bill in Roswell, GA

[J-L]

The initial weight guess was pretty close:

https://www.tarptent.com/product/protrail-li/

16oz for just the tent, 17.7oz total. The Protrail-Li looks to just have a tad smaller vestibule width than the Silnylon Protrail.

[Erik G]

Oh, snap. That is a very compelling combo of specs/weight/price.

[Ian]

God **** it.

I need a new tent like a hole in the head, but this prefects one of my favorite tents.

Trigger warning.

I honestly don’t care about the weight savings.   I just prefer how DCF doesn’t sag compared to silnylon

[David U]

Shit.  Seriously.  I just ordered a different tent from Henry.  I may have to return it and get this…..

[Robert Spencer]

Very nice!

Can we speculate about a Tarptent Mo-Trail Li?

[J-L]

Given that just over one year ago, Henry Shires wrote this about a DCF Protrail:

It did, on screen and on layout, and it just doesn’t play well with the limited 54in Dyneema fabric width. Way too much fabric $$ waste.

I think we can speculate about *almost* every Tarptent model having a Li version (eventually). With the Double Rainbow and now Protrail Li out, it seems Tarptent has mastered DCF design and production.

[Author]

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