Tarptent Notch-Improve Wind Worthiness?

[Sam Farrington]

Suggest that the type of stake needed for heavy winds depends greatly on whether the tent is self-supporting, or not.  For the former, the stakes are needed to anchor the tent, but not keep it upright.  For the latter, if the stake(s) give, the tent may collapse.  An utter disaster in a bad storm.  Still remember as a kid getting up and out of our tent after a severe storm, and finding our adult chaperones on the ground with their tent wrapped around them.

Like a tunnel, I think the TT tent is not self-supporting, and falls into the latter of the above two categories.  So requires heavier stakes for adequate wind resistance.  While trekking pole tents are very light and very popular, am not sure that folks keep in mind the weight penalty from the need for heavier stakes required for wind performance.  There are not always lots of heavy rocks around everywhere to lift and carry a la the Arnold.

For myself, the tents are self-supporting, so if the ground is exposed, light shepherd hook stakes are sufficient.  However, even the thicker ALU ones tend to bend out of shape, so accept the weight of the heavier Ti ones.  They come in various sizes and lengths, and use ones just heavy enough to anchor the tent.  And am also aware that the vestibule pull-outs of the self-supporting tents need more than just anchoring, and are needed for support the tent in heavy winds, particularly the rear vestibule stake that faces the wind.  That is the one that gets the most attention to make sure it is secure.  If the rear shepherd hook is not secure enough, then relocate the pitch so that stake is secure.  Since it projects a couple feet to the rear, a guy to a tree or bush can sometimes be added.

[Todd G]

Were you out there during the 30mph sustained winds with 60mph gusts last weekish? If so I think that probably is just the limit for most tents. I skipped those 2 days but had my stratosphire li out in the following days and basically with site selection, 45 deg angle stock stakes, and set up the extra stock guidelines with groundhog mini stakes and it was fine. Even had it stable on solid granite but I spent significant time finding boulder and earthen berm placement for protection too

[Brad W]

@Todd G Yes. Were you out there as well? The wind was really incredible. I went up New Army Pass and the saddle near Old Army Pass has some of the most incredible sustained wind I have ever hiked in. Felt like steady unrelenting 50-60mph with some higher gusts. Really takes it out of you!

[bradmacmt]

Big Sky International Tube Steaks are back in stock. Really, probably as good an all-around stake as possible. Similar to the round TT supplied Easton’s, but with a more durable build.

https://bigskyinternational.com/products/tube-steak-tent-stake-peg-kit

I don’t use the same stakes all the way around the tent. For just staking out the four corneres I often use Ti Shepherds Hooks, 6″ Tube Steaks, or Mini Groundhogs. For the load bearing guy-outs the 8″ Tube Steaks are the deal.

[Brad Rogers]

@bradmacmt – Nice find.  I’m really a fan of the Easton stakes and am tempted to pick some of these up.  Have you used them, and if so any issues?

[Brad W]

@bradmacmt Those look interesting. Maybe I need to give the 8″ a try on my Pitchlock ends.

[bradmacmt]

I guess this is “the meeting of Brad’s!”

I do use the Tube Steaks, they are excellent. MSR groundhogs can’t take much pounding without damaging the heads. And, of course, the Easton’s supplied with the TT’s are known to lose their heads (or is it minds?) randomly.

Here’s a good review that explains the differences between the Tube Steaks and the Easton’s:

https://sectionhiker.com/big-sky-tube-steak-al-tent-stakes-review/

 

[Brad W]

@bradmacmt Thanks for the link. These seem really nice. I ordered 4 of the 8″. I am going to give these a go on my next trip. I will used these on the pitchlock ends. These also may be great for the door guy lines of my Duplex-those line see a lot of tension and are the ones I have had pop out during high winds.

[bradmacmt]

Great Brad, will be interested to hear your thought’s per usual.

[Bill K]

I was planning on using my 7.25 Vargo AL Y-stakes w/ my Notch LI .. have thought that the surface area of the stake helped keep the stake from being pulled toward the tent.

I’ll buy some of the BS stakes and try them on my trip in SEKI in 2 weeks

 

Thanks for the link & info

[bradmacmt]

I’ll buy some of the BS stakes and try them on my trip in SEKI in 2 weeks

Cool Bill. Looking forward to your thoughts.

[AK Granola]

“the meeting of Brad’s!” – I have given up which one of you created the thread!

I don’t think the weight of longer stakes, even the cyclones, makes it less attractive to carry a trekking pole tent; it’s still way lighter than say my Moment DW. I like the simplicity of that tent, but it is almost 3 pounds, as opposed to my Notch Li, which even with the stakes is only 26 ounces.  I also just added some hem loops, haven’t tried them yet. I really dislike the flapping in wind, and no matter how much I try to tighten the hemlines with the cords at the pitch loc corners, they flap. We’ll see if this mod fixes it. It did bump up the weight a teeny bit. Sleep is worth it.

[Bill K]

Other than backyard testing, my 11 day trip in 2 weeks will be the first “real” usage of my Notch Li.  I got a good pointer from Henry after I tried and failed to get a taut pitch in my yard.  I had too much initial tension on the ends prior to setting up the apex and staking the vestibules.  I can’t attach a pdf so below is part of the email and one photo from the pdf he sent me.

the key to setup is to pull that second end out only to the point where you JUST start to feel/see the underlying floor straps at ground level go from slack to straight. And I do mean JUST.  Stop when the floor straps just starts to straighten.  Resist the temptation to pull it out as hard as you can. Now proceed with the trekking poles and vestibules staking. The result is/should be a virtually flat ridgeline. Then use the line tighteners at each end and/or restake the ends to get the desired perimeter hem and upper canopy tension. We would tell people to stake and tension the vestibules and ridgeline first but there would be no end tensions to keep the structure from falling over so it is necessary to loosely tension the ends first, then hard tension the ridgeline, then adjust ends.

The BS 8″ have shipped and hoping they show up by friday.  I am planning on taking 5 stakes .. 4 and a spare.  I like that the apex tie downs use the same stake as the vestibules.

[Bill K]

[AK Granola]

Give us a report when you get back!

[Sam Farrington]

A floor area of less than 16 sq ft per TT specs may be where much of the weight reduction to a total of 20 oz or so is coming from.  And not from the half oz DCF, which appears to create something of a fiddle factor.  The narrow minimal floor size just ads to the instability in high winds.

With a total weight around 1.5 lbs with AK’s stakes, material of questionable durability, and such limited floor space, there are better tents out there.  AK references the Moment DW weight.  Wonder what it would be with quality carbon mutli-layer poles.  Or maybe with a Big Sky Evolution with carbon poles.  Am not sure if the DCF material is worth its weight in the gold that it costs.  And not sure if the tent is worth the low weight, or in other respects; such as comfort, durability and strength in high winds.

[Todd T]

I had too much initial tension on the ends prior to setting up the apex and staking the vestibules.

IME, almost every pitch problem with the Notch goes back to this.  Pull it too tight and you can’t get the tent taut across the peak and you get flapping other places.  Henry likes to say to pull until you “JUST” start to feel resistance from the bottom straps.  I prefer to pull until it’s tight, then back off a bit, but the effect is the same:  stake the tent a little bit shorter than you think you should.

[S Long]

My Tarptent Moment Double Wall weighs 35.5 ounces. That’s just a little over two pounds. It’s proven to be stable and durable in adverse weather. I have the optional carbon pole, which reduces the weight a little. I typically just use shepherds hook stakes with rocks or logs on them. It’s rarely been an issue. YMMV.

[Sam Farrington]

Agree with S Long; but think it is the total inelasticity of DCF that makes for the fiddle factor.  We really need a super light tent material that is slightly elastic to get a good taut pitch.  Roger Caffin @ BPL has been alluding to this for years. Silpoly is not bad, but may not be as strong as some would like.  I purchased a flat tarp from Yama just to harvest their silpoly; but it would be nice to have a less expensive option.

[Brad W]

The 8″ Tube Steaks came in-man these are…beefy. Feel really substantial for the 14g. Can’t wait to try these on the pitchlock ends of the tent.

[Bill K]

agree with Brad W … taking 5 (1 spare) on my trip. they fit nicely in the TT dyneema large stake bag.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

FLY HEM STAKE LOOPS

I sewed 4 stake loops of grosgrain nylon tape to my Notch Li fly hem, 2 loops per side.

First I got some circles of Dyneema repair tape from Tarptent and wrapped them around the fly edge at each measured and marked location. Then for “belt and suspenders” I added a larger circle of Tenacious Tape over the Dyneema tape and then sewed on the loops with nylon upholstery thread.

Finally I girth hitched a woman’s elastic “hair circle” to each loop for some give in high winds.

The only other thing you could do is, midway up the fly from each end, place a 3″ circle of Tenacious tape inside and outside the fly and sew on (and seam seal) a 2″ loop of narrow nylon webbing or paracord then make a guy line of reflective tent cord so it can be clove-hitched around a hiking pole (or stick, B/C your poles are supporting the tent!) then run it down to a stake. (attach a sliding plastic Line Loc or Pitch Loc tensioner as well for the stake-end guy line loop). This will support the center of each end of the fly. Tarptent does this in the similar Moment DW.

P.S. You can buy some Ground Hog spiral stakes which are also longer.These hold very well for end stakes.

[Bill K]

just back from an 11 day trip mostly on the SHR.  Conditions were mild (20 mph max) so my usage will not satisfy the intel others want on 30+mph performance.

Never had a problem getting a taut pitch with (4) Big Mtn stakes.  the 8″ BMS worked really well in soft crushed gravel and when I had to pound on a couple with a piece of granite to penetrate deeper. I prefer very taut guy lines and a couple times had to place a rock on a stake because of loose holding ground

the Notch was the only tent that had no condensation issues. One night in particular at Grouse Lake it lightly rained and other tent people were drying out their bag/quilt.  Tent People had GG One, Z Plex, Nemo Hornet.

[Brad W]

@Bill K thanks for the update. I took my Notch out and while there was little to no wind, I attached a 12″ piece of cord to the pitchloc loop in order to relocate the stake 12″ further out. I tested the improvement by pulling on the line and it was pretty drastic-plus you can stack rocks on the added line without damage to the OEM lines.

[Chad]

I tied one guyline loop to the two bottom corners of the pitchlock triangle for stake loops and used the third stake for the top loop of guyline on the triangle. It requires carrying 4 extra stakes but ive been in some 30 plus mph winds and nothing came loose on me.

[Author]

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