Staying dry in Tarptent Notch

[Joe]

I must be doing something wrong cause every time it rains I get wet by varying degrees from rain splashing in under the tarp. It’s especially bad when it rains when pitched on a tent platform, the worst area being the foot and head of the inner. My last trip I had to use my rain gear over my sleeping bag, my pillow stuffed in the head end and trekking poles lowered to 105 cm.  Still everything in the inner got wet.

Am I doing something wrong? Is this the wrong tent for tent platforms? Sometimes I don’t really have the option of setting up elsewhere. At 105 cm the top mesh is already pressed up against the top of the tarp, should I be setting it even lower? At that point if there was condensation I would be dealing with both that and the splashing.

[Brad Rogers]

Is this standing water getting splashed up from falling raindrops? If so I have had that happen a few times (not in a notch) at hard packed tent sites on the Georgia AT.

Solid inner walls should fix it or a site that perks better (which may or may not be possible)

[jscott]

I have a super light (3 oz.) rain resistant bivy that cuts off at the shoulder for this kind of situation. It breathes better than a wp bivy but it can handle splash pretty well.

But I prefer a tent with a floor.

edit: oops, I didn’t realize that this tent has an inner and a floor. My bad.

[Lester Moore]

Joe, are your Notch doors open when it’s raining? 3 or 4 inches of the foot area and head area of the inner net text are exposed vertically to the sky while the door are open. So if the doors are open in the rain, then water (or frost) will fall directly onto the outside edges of the mesh inner tent, even with no wind or splash-back.

There is a reasonably effective fix for the above issue using elongated hooks to hold the doors out away from the inner net, covering it completely from direct rain. If you’re interested, I’ll take some photos of my setup. It has worked fine in light rain with no wind.

If your wetness issues are being caused by splash-back, then have you tried closing the little storm flaps at both ends of the Notch’s tarp? As for the mesh being pressed up against the top of the tarp, try setting your poles to 43 – 45″ (109 – 114 cm) because 105cm is pretty low for the Notch IMHO.

[Joe]

The latest occurrence the tent was buttoned up completely and I had started out the night with the poles at 110 cm and only brought them down to 105 to bring the sides lower to the deck which helped a little but at the point the damage was done. There wasn’t any pooled water on the tent platform either.

[Nick Gatel]

Tent platforms are usually the worst place for a tent. Hard packed ground that drains poorly and increases rain splash when it hits the ground. I understand that some locales require camping in designated areas, which is one of the reasons why I live on the left coast, not the right coast. Remember good site selection is rule number one for staying warm, dry, and safe.

[Lester Moore]

Joe, have you tried closing the little storm flaps at both ends of the Notch’s tarp? Your Notch should have flaps that can be deployed to cover the small triangular area at the foot and head of the tarp. That should greatly reduce any splash-back if you are camping in an area that requires you to pitch on tent platforms.

For added protection if needed after closing the storm flaps, hang your rain jacket or pack cover over the outside of the net tent’s foot box. Try tying a knot with the jacket sleeves (or rain cover) around the upper of the three attachment points that connects the net tent to the foot of the tarp, then drape the body of the jacket (or rain cover) over the outside of the foot box.

[Joe]

I usually leave those flaps closed unless its very unlikely to rain. It’s odd that the head end and the food end being the most enclosed got as wet as they did.

I guess I’ll just have to try and avoid tent platforms and hard packed ground like the plague when I can but it’s not always possible.

[Bob Shuff]

I’ve only used my Notch once, but can definitely see how hard rain would splash under.  Unfortunately I have fixed 120cm poles.  Although those aren’t recommended the guy I bought the tent from, used the same he said successfully.  I figured I could dig them in if necessary, but talk of tent platforms has me realizing that’s not always possible.

I think I might take the trash compactor liner bag with whatever it’s still keeping dry and stuff that into the foot end – maybe open with my quilt’s foot-box (and pad?) extended into it. Rain jacket somehow creating a barrier at the head-end?  I would prefer the jacket to remain in the tent, but if it’s wet already, maybe draped over the outside.

I’m usually a hammock camper, and got the Notch for scout treks – when tree’s aren’t likely.  I was close to getting a Protrail when this deal came up, but does anyone think the Protrail would be any better in this regard?.  I like the mid doors and dual vestibules in the Notch.  I like that all the Tarptents take ventilation seriously, but with the efficient coverage for the small footprint I don’t know what else you could do to make a better 26 oz shelter for the price.

[Franco Darioli]

Joe,

can you post some photos of your Notch set up ?

[James holden]

take a cheap polycro or 2 mil plastic painters sheet …

cut it out in the shape of a ground sheet for yr tent … give it an extra 1-2 feet at the foot and head

when it rains use the groundsheet … but folds the head and foot sections between the inner and outer, forming a barrier

the groundsheet will also help reduce you getting muddy in the heavy rain in less solid ground

it also help prevent wind blown rain from getting under the outer

and itll help preserve the thinner sil floors

itll weight ~3-4 oz or so

;)

[Joe]

Franco I don’t have a picture of the tent on the night that it rained, I usually take pictures of my setup every time but it was dark when I rolled into camp.

Here is a picture of the night before, not a tent platform nor did it rain. The night of the rain the end flaps were closed and obviously both vestibules were fully zipped up. The pitch was also more taught than the pitch in the picture.

I do use a polycro sheet but the flaps sticking out aren’t enough to provide cover.

 

[Tipi Walter]

Hey Joe, where you going with that tarptent in your hand???  Ha ha, song reference, no big deal.

I hear such complaints on an intermittent basis with these tents—users voicing some amount of criticism—usually having to do with either rain leaks or condensation.  I’m sure Franco will come in and probably say you’re not setting it up properly as he’s never had such problems and will add several backyard pics to bolster his argument on how it’s REALLY supposed to be set up.

Here’s an idea, Joe:  Return your tent and get something else.

[Tipi Walter]

Nick says—

Tent platforms are usually the worst place for a tent. Hard packed ground that drains poorly and increases rain splash when it hits the ground. I understand that some locales require camping in designated areas, which is one of the reasons why I live on the left coast, not the right coast. Remember good site selection is rule number one for staying warm, dry, and safe.

I do all my backpacking on the Right Coast and have been for almost 40 years and have never used a designated site—but then again I never backpack in the overly regulated Smokies.

And I disagree with good site selection being rule number one for staying warm, dry, and safe.  Rule #1 is having a shelter which can handle all sites without condition.  (Short of falling trees or lightning strikes or tornadoes).

If a tent gets you wet on a hard-packed surface (and many many established campsites are packed)—get a different tent with a better floor and canopy and fly configuration.

If you want to camp on an open bald in a high wind blizzard but your tent requires you bail off the peak and hit lower ground, well, get a better shelter which will allow you the freedom to set up exactly wherever you want.

If you get to a camp at 6pm under clear skies and set up and then by 3am a hellstorm hits, have a shelter that can handle such a storm so you won’t have to pack up on a nighthike and bail.

Plus, in the Southeast mountains of TN and Georgia and NC where I backpack we at times get rainstorm deluges whereby tons of water hit our tent and run down our tent flys.  Guess what?  This water runs off the fly and has to go somewhere no matter where you are camped.  All this water hits the ground around the fly and slowly “sheets” and travels under your tent floor (hopefully not your tarp) and if the rain is hard enough this water forms a temporary pool under your floor—point is your floor must keep this water out no matter what.  Ergo the advantage of a tent with a high denier and high hydrostatic head.

What works for me?  70 to 100 denier floor with a 7,000 to 10,000 hydrostatic head.  Just some thoughts.

[Russ W]

My experience with the Notch has been excellent….also from the right coast, my first night was in the Wilson Creek Wilderness area when I knew with 100% certainty that thunderstorms would occur….oh boy, let’s check it out! My flashlight died but the Notch was fine. 2nd trip was a 9-day figure 8 of sorts in the Smokies and I had rain of some sort for 7 of those days and nights. Again, the Notch was great. 8 days in the Wind Rivers with 2 nights of serious storming and again, no issues. 4 days in the Smokies this past February with lots of snow and it handled the conditions better than it should have.

I use a polycro groundsheet, I’m 6’2″. Only moisture issue has been condensation when zipped up, or when I used in fly-only modes with a bivy and slid out a bit. This little tent works for me so I’m very interested in Franco’s take.

[Bob Shuff]

It’s not just the material of the tent, and I’m sure Tipi would agree even with a left-coaster that site selection is still important.  I have a bomb-proof North Face tent from years ago that I got after a trip in the desert where high winds and rain ruined at least 3 others from the group.  One mother and son abandoned their tent to join others in sturdier shelters when a pole broke, and the next morning, it was completely gone – no where to be found even after walking more than a mile downwind. That was not a serious backpacking tent, but at least 2 others had bent aluminum poles and many were wet inside.  Wind and rain can be different issues (unless they arrive together!)

The point is my North Face tent weighs something like 6 lbs, and I would take it snow camping in exposed mountains.  I would be dry and safe, but I’m not lugging that around anymore.  The Notch is super efficient, meaning light and small.  I’m also interested to hear Franco’s take and anyone else’s tips for using the Notch in various conditions.  I can’t speak for the OP, but I’m not abandoning the Notch.

[Tipi Walter]

Bob says—

The point is my North Face tent weighs something like 6 lbs, and I would take it snow camping in exposed mountains.  I would be dry and safe, but I’m not lugging that around anymore.  The Notch is super efficient, meaning light and small.

It always comes back down to Function versus Weight.  Apparently the prevailing trend nowadays is to favor Weight over Function when it comes to a backpacking shelter.  And so we get to chew over Joe’s plight and post.

[BC Bob]

Are you certain the water is splashing in under the fly?  Not to be too annoying, but does your polycro ground sheet ever extend beyond the fly?  Are you sure the fly is properly seam sealed?

[James holden]

to the OP

you needs to slam the outer to the ground (no idea if the notch can do this, but many other tents can) … in yr pic there is a significant gap …

if theres a significant gap then splashback can be the result especially in places where the inner/outer gap is smaller

either that or have a solid lower inner

or place some kind of barrier between the inner/outer at those points as i suggested above

thats really all there is to it

;)

[Joe]

Are you certain the water is splashing in under the fly?

Yes 100%. The inner was completely free of condensation.

Not to be too annoying, but does your polycro ground sheet ever extend beyond the fly?

It extends 2-3 inches out each side of the inner but that shouldn’t make a difference.

Are you sure the fly is properly seam sealed?

Yes I’ve had it in the rain and under the garden hose several times now and no rain leaks through the fly.

you needs to slam the outer to the ground (no idea if the notch can do this, but many other tents can) … in yr pic there is a significant gap …

That day it was pitched at the recommended height so that gap is “normal”. The night the inner got wet it started off at that height as there was no forecasted rain then when the inner started to get wet I lowered the fly until the inner was pressed up against the fly. If there was condensation on the inside of the fly the top of my inner would have then been wet.

I do agree now that when pitched on hard surfaces the only way the inner isn’t going to get splashed is when it’s slammed as low it will go. Problem is now going to be with condensation wetting the top inner if there is any.

[Franco Darioli]

Joe,

your set up (in the photo you posted) looks fine except that I would always use the apex guylines just in case it does start raining or gets windy.

Maybe the key is in this comment :

” I don’t have a picture of the tent on the night that it rained, I usually take pictures of my setup every time but it was dark when I rolled into camp.”
Since some here don’t know what the tent looks like , here is the floor plan, as can be seen there is a good gap between the fly and the inner so even on hard ground the inner should remain dry.
(yes, it has for me but on hard ground only because I never had mine on a platform)

this photo gives a better idea of the distance between the inner and the fly

the other end is the same

[Joe]

your set up (in the photo you posted) looks fine except that I would always use the apex guylines just in case it does start raining or gets windy

I’ve only used the apex guylines once or twice but I did use them that night and honestly it’s the tightest pitch I’ve ever had, exactly like your picture.

[Zack Freije]

What are “the apex guylines?”

I have a Notch, but mine is the 3 season with the nylon up higher on the sides, vs. just a bathtub and netting. As a result, I’ve only had issues with rain when I set it up poorly. I’ve learned some techniques for setup to keep the fly far away from the tent.

If you want your fly close to the ground, you need to adjust the poles shorter and bring the vestibule lines back and at a steeper angle.

Here’s my video during a rainstorm:

 

The more I tension the top of the triangle at the head and foot, the more it pulls the catenary curve between the poles flat, which seems to draw the netting up to touch the fly and can allow rain to transfer through.

[James holden]

zack …

one can see the water droplets on the solid inner in yr vid

not sure if its from spashback, condensation being knocked loose from the rain, or from wind blown rain

but with mesh inner over hours of heavy rain … enough water may well get through for it to be an issue

;)

[Zack Freije]

yeah there are water droplets on the inner liner…but to be honest, I had absolutely no issues with moisture coming through on me or my down bag. I was a bit concerned so I checked very thoroughly.

The bottom of the tent was dry…and I didn’t have any moisture coming through the mesh.

[Author]

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