Sleeping bag for PNW: what to look for?

[Alex M]

Hello,

I’m new to Backpacking Light. For this first post, I’ve got a question about sleeping bags.

On a recent trip to the Roaring River Wilderness (in Oregon), it got down into the low 40s overnight, and I was cold in my North Face Aleutian 35/2 synthetic bag. I live in the Portland area and I hope to do a lot more backpacking in the PNW. I figured it was time for a new bag.

The Aleutian is quite spacious, and even with some layers on, I struggled to heat all of the dead space (I’m about 5’8″). I do like a little bit of roll around room, but the Aleutian has too much. The bag is also pretty thin and I think that I would benefit from some more insulation.

I’m looking for a down bag (hopefully in the $250 range). I am considering the Montbell Down Hugger #3 (rated to 30 degrees), but I am wondering if I should move down to the 20-25 degree range. I also know a little bit about the EN rating system, so any advice about the type of EN ratings I should look for would help a lot.

Thank you, any advice is greatly appreciated.

-Alex

 

[Jeffrey Hlavac]

Hi Alex,

I was in your shoes a few years ago and also live in Portland. I’d highly recommend an enlightened equipment revelation quilt, 20* or 30* degree depending on how you plan to use it.

As you know the PNW has a different kind of cold with the damp air. I use a tarp so I went with the 20* quilt which works great in most situations, especially when you’re in the mountains. I also have a 50* prodigy synthetic quilt also by enlightened which works well in the 2-3 weeks of hot weather we get out here. The beauty of a quilt is it’s versatility and for the piece of gear you get from enlightened it’s a really good value imo. If I had to do it again I’d get a 30* revelation and the 50* prodigy. This system is versatile enough to handle just about anything in the lower 48 and will work well on extended trips in damp conditions. Just my opinion.

It’s important to have a good pad with a quilt, I use a neoair but there’s others out there too. Hope this helps.

Jeff

[Michael M]

I second the EE Rev. I have the 20deg and love it.

[Lester Moore]

Alex – most BPL’ers would agree that your decision to get a down bag (or quilt) is the way to go for many reasons, especially typical 3 season use in the Pacific NW. Down has many pros and just a few cons for most people, especially weight, compressibility and longevity.

As for feeling cold, there are many reasons why this could be. If the bag is old, then the insulation may have lost significant loft over the years (this is a common trait of synthetic bags). The tent you use, what you eat for dinner, how “cold” you are compared to other people, what sleeping pad you use, and the design characteristics of your bag all play a big role in how warm you feel (in addition to other variables).

The following recent BPL post has many good tips and techniques for how to increase the warmth of your sleep system and is worth reading:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/why-am-i-so-cold/

Then there’s the whole quilt versus mummy bag topic. I love my Enlightened Equipment (EE) Enigma quilt for 3 season use, but if it’s going to likely be in the low 20’s or cooler, I’d opt for one of my mummy bags instead. EE has a high quality to price ratio, although their foot box (in size wide) is a little roomier than most mummy bags I’ve owned. Here’s an older but nonetheless informative post on the topic:

backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/33785/

As for EN ratings, I put more stock in the inches of loft the bag/quilt provides. And how the bag is designed is also crucial, as you noted in your post. I take EN ratings with a plus or minus 10 degree grain of salt, especially when comparing between different manufacturers.

[Ian]

I’m not familiar with your current sleeping bag.  If it’s lost some loft or had an overly ambitious rating, then I’d recommend the Montbell #3.  I have the last generation MBULSS#3 and for me, it has been good down to 30*f.  I’ve heard from others that they felt a bit cold at 30* and I’m a Shrek sized hiker who benefits from natural insulation, so take all that FWIW.

One thing to consider is that if you live in Washington, you don’t have to drive far to be in the Mountains.  I was hiking in the Sawtooths with a couple other BPLers in July.  We hiked through one snow storm and dodged another one where the temps dropped down to 16*f (@ approximately 7000-8000′).  This is something that can happen at these higher elevations 12 months per year.

So a few things to think about, if you see a lot of high elevation hiking in your future and you run cold, you may want to consider a 15*/20* sleeping bag.  If you think you’ll spend most of your time below 5000′, then a 30*f bag is probably going to be fine.  You can always wear a down jacket and pants (there are cheaper options too) for the occasional hike where you may see temps between 15* and 30*.

As far as down vs synthetic, I switched to down a few years ago and have no regrets.  You’ll hear some folks say that the PNW is not suitable for down, but I’ve been out in some wet and humid conditions, and don’t feel that is true.  Of course I’m typically a weekend warrior and none of my trips are over a week.

[Jerry Adams]

I live in Portland, switched to down a couple years ago.

You do have to get your technique down so it doesn’t get wet.

I use quilt I made.  People here are into quilts.  No need for down underneath you like in a sleeping bag – it just gets squished and provides no warmth.  But sleeping bags are good too.

I normally wear some insulated clothing like a vest in my quilt to provide extra warmth.  That lowers the useful temperature.

More than you ever wanted to know about EN standard:  http://www.mammut.ch/documents/Schlafsaecke/Downloads/Sleep%20Well/Mammut_Sleep_well_pt1_E.pdf or just use the “lower limit” as the lowest temperature a normal man will be comfortable in (or “comfort rating” for woman)

EN standard is for sleeping bags, not applicable to quilts which are a niche market

[Alex M]

Thank you all for the great advice and input.

Jeffery and Michael – thank you for the recommendations. I will definitely consider this option. Quilts are new territory for me, so this may not be the route I go.

Lester – wow – you really broke down my situation! However, I don’t think that any of those reasons were responsible for my lack of warmth. Those things are great to know in the future, though:)

Eddie – that is actually quite helpful; all of the information about different temps at different elevations. I live in Portland, OR, so I might experience some of that if I go on a high elevation hike in Oregon’s (or Washington’s) part of the Cascades. Nonetheless, some great info.

As far as quilts go, I’m not sure if I’m ready to make the switch. I know that they do provide weight savings, but as of right now, I don’t really feel the need to sacrifice the comfort for the weight (on the contrary, please do correct me if I am wrong and if you feel that quilts are more comfortable).

Thank you all for the advice,

Alex

[Diane Pinkers]

I had the Montbell Down Hugger #3, and did not find it sufficiently warm when backpacking around Mt. Rainier and the Olympics.  I went with the EE Revelation, and have been very happy.  Even though it doesn’t have a “bottom”, I find it much more comfortable, because I can wrap it tight around me, or open it up when it is warm.  I roll around quite a bit, and I got the wide size, because I like to spread out, but the “dead space” doesn’t seem to be a problem.

You didn’t mention what sleeping pad you use.  That makes a big difference, too.  I use a NeoAir, rated at 2.5R.

[James holden]

a good way to go about it is to get a 30F down bag and a 40-50F apex synth quilt … the combo should be good for 10-20F together

90% of the time youll be using the down bag …  but in colder and damp conditions you can add the quilt on top which allows for excellent moisture management …

the quilt can also be used in camp, at ball games, around the house, etc … as long as you dont compress it much it doesnt really wear out (unlike down which the more you use it, the more youll need to wash it) … and apex is fairly resistance to loft loss anyways

itll cost you more and probably be a tad heavier … but youll never need to worry about a damp sleeping bag … the quilt (get wide to fit over the bag) also prevents the bag from getting wet from external moisture (brushing against a tent wall)

if you can sew (or can bribe someone to) making yr own synth quilt is almost a no brainer… itll cost you ~60$ in materials

as for bags …. look for somewhere between the lower limit to the comfort temp for the proper rating … theres usually a 10F range in there … depending on how “warm” you sleep

;)

 

[Paul S]

As it’s been said, it depends on what elevation you’re sleeping at. My personal preference in the PNW is to camp low where it’s warmer. Due to the dampness of WA and the fact it doesn’t get too cold, synthetic is preferable. Although down insulation will save maybe a few ounces and compress well, it has too many disadvantages (can’t get wet, uneven feather distribution, expensive, difficult to wash, difficult to store, etc.). In colder weather or if you have stringent volume constraints then I’d consider down. The best synthetic option is Apex Climashield. EnlightenedEquipment offers the market’s best option for synthetic quilt using Climashield. If you know someone that can sew for you, making one of these Climashield quilts isn’t too hard and costs around $100 for materials.

[Alex M]

Diane, that’s good to know about your experience with the Montbell. I will probably be doing most of my backpacking in Oregon, so I may or may not have the same experience (if I get the Montbell). Also my pad is a big agnes rated to 15*, which I think will be sufficient for most PNW 3 season trips.

One last question: is there a difference between the Revelation and the Enigma? Just wanted to know if I go the quilt route.

Thanks,

Alex

 

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

Quilts can definitely be more comfortable… do you have a quilt or a sleeping bag on your bed?  prolly quilt.

Your Big Agnes pad may be colder than you think.  It says 15F there is no standard, so for me they were like 40F.  Honestly, I find my gen 1 neoair (2.5r) to be warmer.  Many find this to be true, but IDK if it applies to the qcore pads or not.

[Lester Moore]

Alex – regarding the EE Revelation versus the Enigma, the Revelation can be completely opened up and used just like a blanket, or the foot box can be cinched closed. The Enigma has a sewn foot box that does not open, however the entire top half opens just like the Revelation. I bought the Enigma because I like keeping my feet covered even on warm nights and it’s a little lighter and simpler than the Revelation. See the EE website for details and good photos comparing both:

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/

 

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