Six Moons Designs – where made

[Chris FormyDuval]

That reminds me of when the  fire maple stoves first started to show up a few years back. Wasn’t a representative of the company surprised anyone outside of China had even heard of them let alone how popular they were?

Some things from China do now have a supersized, I mean larger option such as the aegismax down bags. and various down pants for example.

[Anonymous]

Website states X-Mid 1P made in Vietnam.

[Monte Masterson]

“Yes, I am saying that the American market is too small for them to bother about it.”

The 327 million people in America might be too small of a number for 3 UL Gear to consider, but when you see the total number of caucasians in Europe, South America, Canada and Commonwealth nations, you’re looking at well over one billion of them. What’s more the people of the nations mentioned generally have much better purchasing power than the average Asian buyer. Of course many of them are catching up. Goes without saying that and Korea, Singapore, Japan and now much of China have money to spend (at least before the Corona virus) .Not sure how big backpacking is in Asia though, maybe more than I think.

I still say that if 3F would make longer tents and perhaps do a better job of marketing in Europe, the Western Hemisphere and Oz, they could dominate the cheaper end of world tent market. Of course they’d have to prove their products are durable and functional as well as being very affordable.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Monte

Theory, theory, theory.
The fact is that the companies seem to be quite happy with their sales to the Chinese market, and domestic sales avoid a humongous amount of paperwork.

As an acquaintance of mine living over there once said, many years ago: China is full of small backyard operators. Some of them have grown in size.

Cheers

[William Kerber]

My point was that I just don’t want made in China anymore, which takes some time to research. Apparently, most of the world, except for China and Vietnam, doesn’t manufacture much anymore. But, I can find just about everything I want or I should say really need, made in the US, UK, Australia, etc.. except for one item, running  and trail running shoes. May have to go back to hiking boots, taking them off for water crossings.

[Pedestrian]

“But, I can find just about everything I want or I should say really need, made in the US, UK, Australia, etc.. “

Try buying a phone…..

Or maybe a laptop, or a TV….

LOL

Sorry the USA (and much of the West) chose (yes chose!) to “outsource” all “low-end” “low-value” manufacturing to China (and other Asian countries) starting in the 1980s.

Making tents is not rocket science……even designing tents is not really rocket science.

We should stop kidding ourselves that somehow “Chinese” products are inferior.

Unless you believe in the tooth fairy……

As a consumer all I care about is an open, competitive market that provides great products at a price I’m willing to pay.

I could care less where that product is designed or manufactured.

Sorry I forgot we no longer live in that country that believed in free market capitalism :).

It doesn’t mean that US based companies can’t make great innovative products at affordable price points – just that most stopped trying! There are plenty of great examples even today.

We do live in interesting times……

Heck we’ve even taken to quoting Chinese curses….

What’s next?

 

 

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

I can find just about everything I want or I should say really need, made in the US, UK, Australia, etc.. except for one item, running and trail running shoes.

NOT true. The military prefers gear made in USA. I know that New Balance makes a lot of running shoes in their USA factory. Their web site tells you when a shoe is made in the USA.
It sticks in my mind that some outdoors clothing is made in the USA as well for the same reason. And of course most of the cottage mfrs have at least some of their gear made in the USA: that is how they all started.

But Ti pots (and possibly Al pots: they are made overseas. The factory just puts ‘American’ brands on them.

Cheers

[William Kerber]

I think I’m using too many words, so I’ll simplify. I don’t want to buy products made in China or Vietnam, unless I absolutely have to. And, if I have to, I find that to be a damn shame.

[Pedestrian]

Methinks there are much more pressing issues that might be causes of shame to us as a society than buying goods made in China or Vietnam…….but to each their own….

Whatever makes you sleep better!

 

 

 

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

Its only a shame if you make it a shame

[BlackHatGuy]

Meh, I don’t care where something is made as long as it’s made well and functions like I expect.

But then, I prefer my small local dining establishments instead of chain restaurants, so I guess we all have our biases.

[Roger Caffin]

Could that be because your ‘small local dining establishments’ offer better ambiance, better service and better food?
Once again, quality.

Cheers

[Mandarin]

What I want to recorrect is that China’s outdoor market is not as big as enough compare to Japan. It’s just similar to the Korean market right now. And this year the market already saturated, so maybe some company might seek oversea markets to maintain their profit.

Second, there are still many brands in china never mentioned here. Some are cottage brand some are much bigger companies than 3F. They even have the same price gear in China market.

[Monte Masterson]

Thanks for the firsthand insight Mandarin. That’s pretty much the way I figured the Asian market stacks up. Even though China has over 1.4 billion people, if they aren’t willing and/or able to buy backpacking gear, then population doesn’t much matter.

I’m sure 3F UL Gear and other Chinese manufacturers are led by capable people, but I’ve noticed over the years that even though you may have excellent gear at a great price, if you’re marketing isn’t keen, sales will never reach their full potential.

Roger, I greatly respect your knowledge, but in your earlier post you say “the fact is that the companies seem to be quite happy with their sales to the Chinese market, and domestic sales avoid a humongous amount of paperwork.”

I’ve never known of any company that didn’t want to expand their market as much as possible and maximize profits. And as far as paperwork, that is a small obstacle when millions or even billions of dollars are concerned.

 

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Monte

I’ve never known of any company that didn’t want to expand their market as much as possible and maximize profits. And as far as paperwork, that is a small obstacle when millions or even billions of dollars are concerned.

You are of course right, but I suggest you are glossing over some small problems of arithmetic. IF (IF) you know that you will make a profit after going through all the paperwork etc to enter a new market, then it’s an obvious move. But right now their sales in America are very small and casual, and moving seriously into the USA market would happen at a loss.

A good way to move into the American market would be by selling 5,000 (10k?) units to someone like Walmart, or even REI, but that takes a lot of effort and the margins will be very thin. I doubt that ‘millions of dollars’ are very likely at the start, and ‘billions’ is just a daydream. For instance, 5,000 units at $50 each (wholesale to Walmart) => $250k. But then, Walmart probably has its own subcontractors in Asia already.

Cheers

[Monte Masterson]

You’re right Roger, billions of dollars is fantasy land come to think of it.

Actually 3F is already shipping to North America and Europe via Aliexpress and Amazon, but why couldn’t a Chinese company do like MSR, Big Agnes, Marmot or any American based (Chinese made) company and wholesale to the big online sites like Campsaver, REI, MEC outdoor, etc and European sites such as ultralightoutdoorgear? Maybe they would have to leave too much profit margin for the retailer. It just seems like a Chinese gear maker could beat other competitors since virtually all of the materials and labor are already there. Sorry to keep harping on about the issue, but I am intrigued by the world gear market and I’m trying to understand how it all functions. Thanks for being patient.

[Roger Caffin]

Yeah, it’s complex. (That’s why they pay me so much … I wish)

Yes, the Chinese companies are already shipping to NA. Good on them. The problem comes when someone asks them to alter their product line to suit NA. In effect, that means starting a whole new product line, one which probably would not sell within China. A cottage mfr could do that, but not a mega-corp.

Cheers

[Matthew / BPL]

Thread closed.

I just deleted some posts getting far off the original question of where SMD manufactures their tarps. I believe that question has been answered adequately.

Chaff is the appropriate place for debates about politics. This is the Gear Forum.

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