Shouldering the Load.

[jscott]

Yeah, I saw that picture of the porter. This is a bad idea. Sorry!

[Murali C]

Agreed jscott. I think it is crazy! Here is an blurb from another article:

“Males in their late 20s carried the heaviest loads, 83 kg (182 lbs), in relation to their own size, equivalent to 159 percent of body mass. The heaviest load encountered was 108 kg (238 lbs), carried by a 44-year-old Rai trader, Bhim Bahadur Sunwar, who stood 146 cm tall (4’9”) and weighed a mere 47 kg (104 lbs). Bhim Bahadur was carrying 228 percent of his own body mass.”

[Tom K]

“This is interesting, because people are saying the spine is not designed for “massive” loads…but a 30# pack is not massive. It’s 14% of my bodyweight…and for reference, I can squat 225 and deadlift substantially more. So let’s not forget the relativity of loads here, nor the role of strength training in affecting the threshold of what’s comfortable or safe to carry.”

I think it is well to keep in mind that you are a bit of an outlier in this community, Craig, a big guy in his mid 40s who pays a lot of attention to staying in shape and chooses challenging routes.  It stands to reason that a 30# pack would feel pretty light to you and impose little strain on your back.  But by that same logic, an older guy like me who also manages to stay in reasonable shape but weighs only 138# when stepping out of the shower, might feel a bit more challenged shouldering a beltless, frameless pack with a 30# load that is 21% of my weight.  That 30# would almost certainly result in a lot more stress on my spine, which has a curve resulting from scoliosis.  Also, my natural body type just does not respond to strength training by bulking up.  Not much I can do about that, especially as I age.  I can add a little muscle mass and definitely train what muscle mass I have to do more work, which I do, but my absolute strength level will forever remain far below the numbers you mention which make a 30# pack seem light to you.  And so, I am doomed to seek other ways to enable me to carry what I require for longer trips.  You and I have done enough trips together and had enough discussions on various aspects of my approach that you know how I go about it, and that it works, at least for me.  My guess, and it is admittedly a guess, is that there are many more like me who benefit from using a pack that transfers the load to the hips and thence to the legs, and who also benefit from focusing on lightening their carried weight, both gear and consumables, in lieu of engaging in a rigorous strength training program.  This is not to say that they should entirely ignore strength training which, if done safely, cannot help but improve their ability to carry a pack, but only that there are other ways to achieve the same goal for those not so inclined for a variety of reasons.

[jscott]

nm

[W I S N E R !]

Definitely Tom, all of this is subjective. Bear in mind, nothing in my original post is prescriptive, just a description of what I’ve been doing and how it’s helped me. People need to decide what’s appropriate in their training for themselves. I know you’re on the much smaller/leaner side…genetics, but also a decision based upon your background in distance running/racing. Regarding you and I, it’s a bit like discussing the characteristics and abilities of a Rottweiler versus a Greyhound. I’m climbing again and there’s a solid chance my forearms are currently as big as your calves ;)

But as my grandma liked to say: It takes all kinds.

[BlackHatGuy]

Ah, Rotties. Truly a wonderful breed. If I ever get another dog, it’s going to be a Rottie mix.

[Tom K]

“Definitely Tom, all of this is subjective. Bear in mind, nothing in my original post is prescriptive, just a description of what I’ve been doing and how it’s helped me.”

For sure, and it has generated a most interesting and informative discussion that I think has left all who participated or lurked better prepared to make choices going forward.

 

“I’m climbing again and there’s a solid chance my forearms are currently as big as your calves ;)”

And callus pads on your knuckles from dragging all that excess bulk around.  ;-))

[Jacob]

I dont think its the shoulder strength training preventing backpacking shoulder strain; its the core work and shoulder PT routine.

All the kettle bell work and compound lifts strengthen the core.

If you have sufficient pillar strength to maintain posture under load you won’t let the shoulder straps pull your shoulders out of proper position.

[W I S N E R !]

If you have sufficient pillar strength to maintain posture under load you won’t let the shoulder straps pull your shoulders out of proper position.

!!

[Nick Gatel]

Good discussion.

I’m not a Sherpa <smile> but at 72 years young, I have been backpacking for almost 60 years.

At this age I don’t have any physical aliments that limit my hiking other than I am not as strong or fast as I once was.

Part of this is due to good genes, a fairly active lifestyle, and rarely over-stressing my body. I have been injury free my entire life, other than normal cuts, scrapes, and minor sprains. I can, and still do, hike with 30 – 35 lb. (mostly when carrying a lot of water in deserts is necessary). On most trips the pack weight is under 20 lb. and 10 or 12 isn’t unusual for short trips of 2 or 3 days.

35 lb. is a bit over 20% of my body weight, so not uncomfortable with a good internal frame pack.

For several years (in my late ’50s and early ’60s) I mostly did trips with frameless packs — when I was able to keep the total down around 15 lb. or less. Anything over 15 lb. in a frameless pack was just less comfortable than I was willing to endure. Other than that, I have always used framed packs — internal and external.

I have hiked with Craig and he is an animal, not your average backpacker. So what works for him isn’t going to work for most of us mere mortals ;-). Plus Craig hunts in winter with necessary heavy gear and equipment, so he must be in good shape to do this, especially since he often goes solo.

To me, the important thing is to look to the future and do the things that are most likely to allow you to continue backpacking into the twilight years of life. For me it is not practicing with loads that are heavier than what I will carry on a trip. As usual, YMMV.

[Murali C]

Welcome back Nick….long time, no see….

[W I S N E R !]

Hi Nick!

For me it is not practicing with loads that are heavier than what I will carry on a trip. As usual, YMMV.

Exactly. Once again, my original post is not prescriptive for others, but simply what I need.

I don’t think people need to “train” for casual backpacking trips if they’re in reasonable shape. But if the mileages, weights, and elevation profiles start getting more ambitious, I find it impossible to be successful if I don’t train with specificity, and that includes weight. Maybe not every single workout, but at least 1-2/week in a training phase. Bearing 30# on the shoulders alone (no hipbelt)  is helpful to me, primarily because I’ve yet to use a load hauling pack that can put 70+ pounds exclusively on my hips without having serious pinching/chafing issues from the hipbelt. Packing a serious load on a hunting trip or doing a 20+ mile day with XC, steep climbing, and elevation is definitely not a good place to acclimate to a load/pace for the first time in a season.

[Jerry Adams]

I’m not quite as old as Nick : )

I noticed I’ve been having trouble balancing on log across creeks.  And balancing holding my foot up to put on pants.

So, I’ve been doing an hour on most days.  Ride stationary bike.  Hold 5 pound barbells and do 10 squats, repeat 3 times, alternate with some arm lifts.

I can now balance much better.  Plus, my weight went down from 200 pounds to 192.  6’2″.  Maybe unrelated – I haven’t really otherwise tried to lose weight.  Maybe more muscles changes hormones to affect this.

[Nick Gatel]

Exactly. Once again, my original post is not prescriptive for others, but simply what I need.

I don’t think people need to “train” for casual backpacking trips if they’re in reasonable shape. But if the mileages, weights, and elevation profiles start getting more ambitious, I find it impossible to be successful if I don’t train with specificity, and that includes weight.

Just like a marathon. Few can run one without training. With training it is a different story. Oprah ran a marathon at age 40 in 4:29, which is right around the average time for all women. It was her first and only marathon.

As I mentioned, avoiding injury is a high priority for me, especially over the long term. This would include some training prior to a very difficult hike to avoid injury on said hike — such as our San Jacinto Loop trips a long time ago. Injury avoidance would also include not “over training” too.

[Nick Gatel]

I noticed I’ve been having trouble balancing on log across creeks.  And balancing holding my foot up to put on pants.

So, I’ve been doing an hour on most days.  Ride stationary bike.  Hold 5 pound barbells and do 10 squats, repeat 3 times, alternate with some arm lifts.

I can now balance much better.  Plus, my weight went down from 200 pounds to 192.  6’2″.  Maybe unrelated – I haven’t really otherwise tried to lose weight.  Maybe more muscles changes hormones to affect this.

I have also noticed the diminished balancing ability. Since I almost always hike solo, I am more careful. I have never liked trekking poles, but have gone back to bringing a hiking staff with me on all backpacking trips. I hadn’t considered that some exercises might help.

[John S.]

Searched and found this for balance.

https://www.healthline.com/health/exercises-for-balance

I was on an Arkansas trip with two friends, about a 5 day trip and we are on day 1. We come up to a water crossing and one friend crosses on a log at least 6 feet off the water. He went over successfully (we are same age, maybe around late 40s at the time). I took one look at it and balked..lol. No way was I gonna try it with a full pack.

[Jerry Adams]

those looked like a good set of exercises, thanks

they were more aimed directly at balance

I think just having stronger leg muscles helps – thus the squats.  And probably riding the stationery bike, even though that’s more cardio

I think I’m better at crossing streams on logs, but I’m definitely sure it’s helped balance while I’m holding a leg up getting it into pants legs

[BlackHatGuy]

A couple of easy things you can do to help your balance (at least they helped me):

— Brush your teeth standing on one leg. Left leg in the morning, right leg at night.

— Put your socks on without sitting down.

— Stand on one leg while waiting in line for something. When you move forward, switch legs.

— People might look at you funny, but when walking from your car to the store walk on something elevated but narrow, like the edge of a sidewalk and such. Or when walking across the street at a crosswalk walk on one of the lines that goes across the road instead of just walking across the road wherever in the crosswalk. Etc. This forces you to walk with one foot in front of the other, like one of the exercises in John’s link.

 

[W I S N E R !]

I’m glad you mentioned this Doug. It may sound silly to practice these things, but in my experience balance is very much a use it or lose it skill. look up “tree pose” . I like to practice this (lower body only) when I have to stand around.

I remember reading something by Bruce Lee over 20 years ago advocating the same thing you are… Getting dressed on 1 foot, brushing one’s teeth on 1 foot, etc.. Apparently he incorporated this into his life, along with always taking the stairs, parking a few blocks from your destination, etc..

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