REI Snow Stake for ice arrest?

[Don H]

Would it be crazy to use an REI snow stake for emergency ice arrest? I have no experience in technically dealing with ice. Just thinking it might be a super light alternative to ice axes or whippets on the PCT. (Plus adding a third use for snow stakes besides cat hole diggers.)

[Matthew / BPL]

I’m pretty sure people with more experience than me are going to dissuade you from relying on a snow stake to save you should you lose your footing crossing the chute at Forester Pass.

It might work slowing you down a bit on a glissade but for arresting on ice I’m pretty sure the tip would be innefective at digging in and ergonomically challenging to employ.

[Stephen M]

I would not want to try it.

 

[James holden]

You dont fall on ice … Period

your chances of self arrest even with a proper ice axe is poor at best on a slope

get the proper crampons so you dont fall on ice

For self arrest on snow get a proper ice axe

again

Do not fall on ice …

;)

d

 

[Lester Moore]

What Eric said is true for hard ice of any angle and for nevé of significant slope. There are many types of ice and snow in the hills and they can change substantially throughout the day and from place to place. The most effective equipment to deal with all types is experience. You’re safer with a lot of experience and mediocre tools than the other way around IMHO.

It looks like a big snow year for the PCT this year, so even if you’re starting in June and finishing in 3 months, you’ll likely see a lot of snow and ice in the Sierras. Not sure where you live, but get out this Spring and enjoy some fun snow climbs with skilled friends willing to show you the ropes. Or take a basic course in snow climbing and self arrest, even if it means a bit of travel.

As for gear, you can always ship yourself an axe or whippet and Al crampons at Kennedy Meadows and ship them home again in Tahoe. Think of the added weight in this way – if you have an axe, crampons and know how to use them, you can make good speed on snow with experience, adding efficiency to your trip. In contrast, inching across an icy slope in trail runners and using a sharp rock (or tent stake) for self arrest is slow, tedious and unnerving work (don’t ask me how I know).

[Jeffs Eleven]

The Darwin Society says it works well.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I bent my SMC snow stake merely digging a potty hole so, no, I would not “stake” my life in using ANY snow stake as a self-arrest tool.

[David Thomas]

“get the proper crampons so you dont fall on ice”

I differ on this one (knowing someone who fell to his death while wearing crampons).  Crampons help get a grip on ice.  But weak snow is still weak snow and can give way.  And crampons create their own issues – you can take a tumble if you snag a crampon spike on your other pants leg/gaiter.

In a pinch, try to self arrest with anything.  I stopped myself during a nasty slide with the tip of my ski pole – both hands and most of my weight on it.  Barely.

But anything you plan to self arrest with has to in your hands, ready to go, AND PRACTICED WITH.  I think we’ve all had ice axes ripped out of our grip early in our training before we learned how firmly we had to hold them.  That’s even more true of any improvised self-arrest tool: they’re even harder to hold on to when there’s 100 or 200 pounds of force trying to tear it from your grasp.

And remember, often the biggest “tool” you have for crossing an ice-patch of trail is time. Many days, that patch will go from hard and icy to something you can kick steps into to really soft stuff you posthole through.  Knowing where those patches are ahead and choosing your time to cross can greatly reduce your risk.

[Glenn O]

Not going to work on hard neve or polished glacier ice. On steep snow you need a device with leverage and surface area as much as a pointy thing.

[Roger Caffin]

Would it be crazy to use an REI snow stake for emergency ice arrest?
Yes.

Find a nice gentle bit of hard snow and try it. Somewhere which will not kill you when (not if) your idea fails.

Cheers

[George F]

IMHO on steep snow the biggest advantage to an ice axe isn’t self arrest but, if used properly, you are much less likely to fall.

[Roger Caffin]

I once used a titanium poo trowel going up a steep hard-snow gully in the Pyrenees. Being very thin metal it work well to hack footholds and it served as a hand hold as well. But no way would it have been any use if I had slipped: it would have ripped out of my hands.

Lady coming the other way (downwards) was using a rope, but I think she was protecting her son as well.

Cheers

[Diane Pinkers]

I think this is taking the ultralight idea too far, into the realm of “stupid light”.  A snow stake would not have the grip area, nor the sharpness to dig in-you will be moving really, really fast. If you think you need a device to self-arrest, use the proper tool, or wait for conditions to change so the danger is less.  Saving your life is not the area to scrimp in.  The Whippet is at least multi-use, and could be mailed to Kennedy Meadows, and sent home at South Lake Tahoe.

The most ultralight part of your kit is proper skills.  I hopefully will be taking a Winter Backpacking course in April, where self-arrest techniques will be taught.  It was supposed to be this weekend, but was postponed for lack of participation.  If you live near Washington State, I can send you the info for the class.  Same thing will be taught near Lake Tahoe, if that is closer for you.

[David Thomas]

The Whippet is also really handy in clawing your way to the front of the lift lines.

And for fighting off the marmots on Whitney that try to steal your Oreos.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Seek out a good good class on self-arrest techniques. Organizations like The Mountaineers and REI should have something.  We have lost hikers sliding off snowbound trails on spring hikes in the PNW. Do it right!

[Cameron M]

Besides clawing your way to the front of the lift lines, why would someone prefer the Whippet to an ice ax? Seems to me to be a very heavy walking pole, and possibly heavier and seemingly inferior to an ice ax. I can also imagine the pole when fully extended impeding the positioning of the spike and pole into proper position.

[David Thomas]

At 15 ounces, it isn’t as light as some (very short) ice axes, but it doubles as a trekking pole and tent/tarp pole which a traditional ice axe does not.

If I was using the Whippet for potential self-arrest, I’d have one hand firmly on it at all times, often, two hands on it.  Just like an ice axe.  Collapsed length is 99 cm.  Which I like, since I’m never on vertical ice, I’m not swinging it overhead.  Maybe because I have a long torso, I prefer 90+ cm but sometimes get stuck with an 85 cm.

That said, since I don’t use trekking poles, I’d be inclined to carry the lightest traditional ice axe (or the infamous potty trowel) for the High Sierra portion and then send it home.

[James holden]

david …

by crampons i mean any good spiked traction devices … including microspikes …

and if one learns how to properly walk in em, and practices … you wont be tripping in em

crampons are the most useful thing one can have on actual ice … period

use properly the minimize the chance of falling

after that its a PROPER ice axe, which you can use to chop steps if needed

;)

[Don H]

Thanks all for arresting my dangerous slide into stupid light.

[Author]

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