Reassessing my rain gear solutions

[obx hiker]

The annual rain gear thread. Some clips from above copied below

if it’s warm and raining, discomfort but not hypothermia is the issue.

if it’s warmer and/or the wet weather is short-lived, it becomes more of a comfort issue than a safety issue.

I try to stay both dry and warm, but if I have to pick one, I’ll pick the latter

Whether or not you can just let yourself get wet depends on temperature, wind, and how long it rains. If it’s in the 40s F (or even 50s) and you get soaked, you may be able to stay warm enough while moving but the minute you stop you’re going to get very cold very quickly. When you stop you’re going to have to either get in a shelter or change layers very quickly, neither of which is easy/possible to do without getting cold or getting dry layers wet.

And then Rex gets things a little better organized by pointing out that there’s a variety of conditions which might be more or less categorized.

Just for the sake of discussion how would one define, like Rex; say maybe 3 categories? like 1. “Danger!” 2.”Discomfort Wetness Cool” ” 3.Discomfort Hot-Messy” or something. Awkwardness/inefficiency might be another related issue. Pack/unpack, rinse-repeat. And there’s always weight. Seems like the conversation just goes everywhere and hence nowhere.

In the meantime a comfort and possibly safety tip about a particular situation that’s worked for me re wet stream crossings. I immediately stop and take off the wet socks, wring etc. to speed drying. Put on dry socks and then a bread bag, and hike on for a couple of hours by which time I can usually remove the bread bag and the first pair of socks are getting pretty dry.

And this last is irresistible:

If I’m only wearing a shirt and WPB jacket, at least there isn’t a lot that gets wet

Or forego clothing altogether. Remind me not to follow you up a steep switch-backed slope ;)

[Kevin Babione]

Following this thread reminds me of some of the reasons I really like The Packa:

• The integrated pack cover keeps my pack protected (including between my back and the pack) in a storm.  I was once hiking with a buddy whose sleeping bag got wet in his pack even though he had a pack cover (and thought he was safe).  Water got to it from the space between his rain jacket and his pack.
• The 18″ pit zips really help with ventilation to minimize overheating
• I can easily don and doff The Packa without stopping when hiking during those annoying intermittent showers.  I overheat quickly and ditch the raingear as soon as possible after a shower – I can do that with The Packa without stopping to put it away (and then stopping again to pull it out if the rain resumes).  If it looks like rain I’ll usually put The Packa on my pack when I’m breaking camp to make it easier to pull on if the rain starts.

[Mark Verber]

A slight variant of forego clothing… when it’s hot and the rain is a welcome cooling: have a hat to keep rain out of eyes, and wear clothing that is reasonably comfortable when wet (for me tri shorts and shirt made for surfing).

[SIMULACRA]

2nd the hat with a good brim. Good for folks with glasses. Wearing all my rain gear in my photo. Doubles as wind gear. Was super windy up there

I’ll say though OBX, don’t hold back, let it out man… :)

[Erica R]

Also being a fair weather hiker, rain gear wants to be lightweight and multi purpose.

I have a DCF poncho from Z packs, I think it is about 5 oz.

I put it under my tent so if I ever do get caught in a puddle maybe there won’t be leaks in the floor. Do they call it a bathtub floor because it fills up with water?

I did use the poncho in the rain once. It covered me and my pack. We both stayed dry. Worked great in that hailstorm/deluge. Didn’t try to use my poles.

Legs and feet got wet. Oh well. The only problem was when I stopped to set up my tent… I leaned the pack against a tree, and in the 3 minutes it took to get into the tent the pack did get damp.

The good think about walking in the rain is you can see where the puddles are before you decide where to put your tent.

[Paul Wagner]

I sweat when I hike, so bringing along rain gear gives me two options once is starts raining.  I can just let it rain on me and get wet, or I can put on the raingear and get with with condensation.  Seems to work out about the same wet either way.

I do take raingear, but am more likely to wear it around camp (when I am not in the tent) or when I am sure to reach camp within about 30 minutes, in which case the condensation won’t be too bad.  That’s also and incentive to set up camp once it starts raining.

Admitted, I hike in the Sierra–not the Amazon or the Olympic rainforest.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I’m not sure that the wetness from condensation is equal to the wetness from being rained on.

I had an experience in the Los Padres where my rain poncho failed. It was a vinyl poncho, a little bit better than the polyethelene kind that costs 99c. The trail was brushy with scrub oak and by the time I got out in the open again, all that remained of my poncho were the hood and two strips that draped over the front of me. I tried to hide behind the strips as best I could but but the time I arrived at our designated campsite I was completely drenched. It was March. It was cold. I was becoming hypothermic and starting to lose the use of my hands. I got my shelter up, got undressed and into my sleeping bag and warmed up, but all my clothes were completely soaking wet and they did not dry by morning. Much wetter than the wettest I’ve ever been from condensation or even from sweat. The partially lycra long sleeved shirt was the worst. Cold, stretchy, clingy. Very hard to put on when wet.

So I try to keep somewhat dry. The rain itself can be quite cold as it hits you. Even in Hawaii.

I have only rarely experienced warm rain when it is hot out. It’s kind of delightful, but really rare for me where I’ve been.

[obx hiker]

I won’t copy over a string of comments again but there seems to be a rather broad consensus in this thread so far, that if you are engaged in vigorous exertion and dispelling sensible (sweat) and insensible (water vapor) at high volume you are going to eventually get wet pretty much regardless of what you’re wearing.

Obviously (or so it would seem) if you are standing around without the exertion and metabolic processes all ramped up you might stay pretty dry with WPB gear. One might also be lucky enough, for it seems luck is involved, to have weather that allows you to vent enough to keep your next to skin more or less dry. But you could also be just resting in your shelter. I.E. we are talking about moving through the terrain with exertion in the rain.

So if we’re moving we’re going to get somewhat wet; maybe really wet. Then the issue is what is/isn’t safe and/or what is/isn’t comfortable.

As we all know the safety issue is getting or staying cold while also wet. Here’s a little article by the Red Cross on hypothermia.

People have died around here after capsizing in a kayak in stormy weather in water @ 50. When they started out it was sunny and in the low 70’s and then a nor’wester front barreled through. They couldn’t get the kayak righted and get back inside and couldn’t hang on long enough…. horrible really.

So it seems the question is how can we stay warm and reasonably comfortable when it’s raining. Sometimes for days on end.

I’ll say though OBX, don’t hold back, let it out man… :)

Haha good one. Don’t hold your breath.

[obx hiker]

The rain itself can be quite cold as it hits you. Even in Hawaii.

Piper I lived a couple years on the North Shore back in my ute. The air is always just around 84-85. Water is 72-73. I always wore a vest surfing; avoid rash, keep the tradewinds from chilling me out from transpiration.

Many a good day after being out for hours I’d finally give it up and come in and be hypothermic, shivering. Had to stand in the shower for 10-15 minutes to get straightened out so my feet didn’t feel like blocks of wood.

Give it enough time and wet will get you dangerously cold.

[Ben C]

My home base is in the southeast. I hike a lot in warmish, humidish conditions. My current set up is a cuben kilt and the lightweight Outdry jacket with the membrane on the outside rather than in. I think it’s a pretty good system. I’ll explain a little how I go there.

I started out with a poncho. It’s a pretty good option in my conditions really. The fabric is waterproof. It’s not breathable, but it’s mostly off of your body, so there’s good ventilation. But I don’t like it in wind, which often comes with rainstorms. The wind makes the poncho a mess to wear. The wind blows under the poncho. And it’s the wind that typically makes it cold enough that you want rain protection instead of a windshirt. In short, windy conditions are when I most want rain protection and it’s when a poncho is at it’s worst.

Then I went through a few dwr rainjackets. I heard anecdotes of how good some were. These jackets breathed ok when it wasn’t raining. But these jackets loose breathability when you most need it – when it’s humid and raining. The dwr eventually gets wet and breathability drops fast.

I then moved to the Outdry jacket. It’s not as breathable as some of the dwr jackets when they are both dry, but I’m not wearing it unless it’s raining. I think it performs better in rain by quite a bit than the dwr jackets – not perfect, but better. I’m still not wearing it unless it’s pretty cool or pretty windy with my rain.

I have always found rain pants to be too hot. I don’t take them unless it’s really cold. I have had a cuben kilt for a long time that I take unless it’s really cold. I’m pretty happy with it. The cuben is stiff enough and hydrophobic enough to keep wet fabric from sticking to me when it’s raining. And the ventilation is good.

 

[obx hiker]

^^ Ben: I still remember the exact spot when I realized a poncho wasn’t going to work.
Did you have the kilt that night @ Knifepoint or pants?
What keeps you reasonably comfortable next to skin in wet, windy, colder conditions?

[Ben C]

Ah, you remember my fun at Knifepoint, obx. It was snowing, so I was just wearing a pair of thin nylon hiking pants, best I remember.

If I’m expecting wet, cold, and windy (all 3), I might take rain pants. Otherwise I will walk in shorts or light nylon hiking pants. I might supplement with wind pants, and I usually have a pair of long johns.

[obx hiker]

^^ Yes the photo was beautiful. Thought about it when I walked under the west side of Alpine pass on my way over towards Blaurock Pass

[AK Granola]

I tend not to like alcohol while backpacking, but a shot of Yukon jack is not bad once out of the rain for the day. A hot cup of soup is even better.

My conditions are so different than yours, that I was completely shocked that people didn’t use full rain gear in the Sierra (or further south in CA). Rain skirt??!! I had no idea you could be warm and wet. In Alaska I have full water proof rainpants and raincoat, and they go on every hike all summer. It can snow in July. You could risk and get lucky, when you set out at 70 and sunny. But I have started out just so, and then been in days long soaking rain, hail, fog, wet, wet, wet. Must have the ability to stay dry. I don’t dress heavily starting out, so that my underclothes don’t get saturated. Pitzips help a lot, as does unzipping when possible. I’ve never sweated out pants, only top. I also bring a complete change of gear for in the tent, which goes on only when I’m in for the night (if it’s still raining). I also wouldn’t go stoveless; a hot cup of anything is vital. Don’t count on anything drying out.

I like the idea of just using windpants or jacket in different conditions. I’d like to hear if it actually works. Given my experience I’d worry about getting chilled, but it’s probably just my lack of experience in other regions.

[Roger Caffin]

I had no idea you could be warm and wet.
Sure can!
We get brief downpours here (Oz) in summer. Often we don’t bother with rainwear. If we put it on we would quickly get wet from internal sweat condensation. If we leave it off, we get wet, then we dry out. But this is Oz summer.

Cheers

[Mark Verber]

I as mentioned above and roger noted, it is possible to be wet and warm, and sometimes the rain can actually be nice. As to the question of using windshirts / pants in these conditions. I don’t like to be wearing classic windshirts/pants in the rain. They do dry quickly once the rain has stopped, but when soaked they get plastered to the body and tend to bind. I much prefer fabrics that are slightly 3 dimensional and are designed to be comfortable when wet. Things like tri-shorts, surfing shirts, etc.

[kevperro .]

Rain is great! We like the cold nasty rain days because there are fewer day-hikers on the trail. The best time to be using trails is when other people are unwilling. And you stay plenty warm if you exert and manage your clothing system properly.

[Roger Caffin]

It helps to have a little tarp you can string up for morning tea and lunch, plus a small stove for hot coffee. Oh yes – and a foam mat to sit on.

Cheers

[Nick Gatel]

Life long poncho user here. I do have rain jackets I use occasionally.

For the past 10 years I’ve been using a zPacks cuben poncho. It is small and not billowy. Actually, sometime I have difficulty getting over me and my largest pack, but once done, it works. My arms will get wet, which is the trade off with ventilation vs. keeping dry. I don’t use trekking poles, so it is easier to keep my arms some dry.

I normally hike in shorts, which is fine for me. However, if the weather gets too cold, my thighs get uncomfortably cold, since the poncho isn’t very long. It those situations, I add a cuben kilt. With this combination I can usually stay both warm and dry.

Here’s a picture from a trip on the Appalachian Trail. It was fairly warm.

 

And one on the Buckeye Trail in Ohio. It got kinda cold, but not enough to need the kilt.

[Luke Schmidt]

I had 3 case studies this past summer and fall.

Kesugi Ridge, Alaska 

I got soaked wearing a nylon “bug shirt ” and a Columbia Outerdry which failed pretty catastrophically.  I got wet and cold, as in almost hypothermic. This was in August so maybe 50 to 60 degrees.

Lesson – Bring a fleece! And a better raincoat. This one seemed to leak and leak fast.

Undisclosed Location in Alaska (Moose hunting spot).

I switched back to my older Goretex rain coat that the Outerdry was supposed to replace. I got rained on quite hard and did a major bushwacking hike off a mountain. I felt much better. The Goretex appears to have leaked very slightly. I probably got wetter from the wet bushes pushing water up my sleeves.

The other big difference is I had my light fleece under the raincoat. It doesn’t soak up moisture so the wet tends to stay off my skin better.  I ended this trip soggy but much warmer.

Lesson – Goretex seems to age better. Fleece helps a lot.

Undisclosed Location (caribou hunt on brushy tundra).

The last weekend of September I took an Alaska Native  boy who I mentor on a “Hail Mary ” hunt for his first caribou (very important culturally for him and grandpa couldn’t go because of an injury).

Anyway I brought my ancient Marmot Precip jacket. I thought any precipitation would be snow and I didn’t want to trash my Goretex crawling through willows.

Well surprise surprise it rained. My young friend saw a caribou and dropped it in a boggy meadow. The other young man on the hunt also dropped a caribou. By the time we had the caribou dealt with I was soaked. But surprisingly I stayed fairly warm. I had on at least one fleece and I think the Precip slowed water entry even though it wetted out.

So the combo of a fleece and better jacket kept me warm even though it was considerably colder than the backpacking trip earlier.

Overall Lessons Learned 

Some jackets wet out but still slow the water entry down. This seems to help. Goretex seems better anecdotally.

Wearing a fleece under a raincoat is the way to go unless its way to warm.  I have a 7oz Montell fleece I use in warmer weather. Critically I do not plan on using the fleece as insulation. I have a separate puffy for that. I expect the fleece to get somewhat wet even if my raincoat is good.

[Roger Caffin]

Agree 100%. Fleece works great under a barrier of any sort. And fleece dries off fast.

Cheers

[Dondo .]

+3 on fleece under a shell in a cold rain.  My cheap no-name fleece from Amazon weighs 8 oz., a lot of weight in the context of BPL.  But it comes along on every trip that has a decent chance of rain.

[Josh J]

I haven’t been much backpacking in rain, a fair amount of hiking and lots of running.

50s and below just sucks!  Nothing worse than cold and wet.

I personally get hot easily.  One of my trips I backpacked through 2 thunderstorms in 80/90s and humid AF! No cover was drenched and wasn’t bad  but it would have been worse with a rain coat.

After and during I have seriously thought about ponchos and never thought about umbrellas until now.

In warm/hot weather I’d probably go with an umbrella.  In weather 50 and below I’d be worried about sweating out so I’m probably going to give the umbrella and poncho  or the packa a go.

[R L]

Interesting read so far but I’ll prolly toss a jinx into it with a question.  Any thought(s) to wearing something like Wiggy’s fishnet long underwear as a base if one knows they’ll be subject to wet conditions?

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