Rain Jacket Blues

[Bill Budney]

Hood and shoulders: A couple of companies make hood-and-shoulder ponchos. They often have a pack cover so that they can be flipped on or off, as required. It is a great idea for some conditions. I would like a quick-to-attach “front” for when the rain becomes heavy.

Why so long and wide? I would say that most ponchos are NOT long. Most are about parka length, like upper thighs. That allows the wearer to choose appropriate bottoms for conditions and preference. Width, yes, may be for shelter options.

OneWind has an extended length poncho with an interesting design. It is a box shaped poncho-tarp, but it also has sleeves.

There is further room for improvement. Maybe a narrow body, longer sleeves, and a detachable front, with the pack cover for easy deployment while walking?

[HkNewman]

why are ponchos so long? Or so wide?

I found a company that makes personalized ponchos for tourist type travel and their recommend lengths correspond with customer height.  Their ideal length is mid thigh when worn to cover the typical pants pockets and rear.  Assuming stepping up would be the reason to keep length above the knee?  Historically civilian ponchos can be short or long, though.

Military ponchos have the same idea, but can also be used to augment small shelters or as an emergency/improvised shelter on its own (a “lean-to” shelter, etc..).  There’s a number of YouTube videos showing military ponchos used as mostly low A-frame shelters (looks like almost all in wooded areas).

Field-use poncho makers probably copied the dimensions from the latter.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I don’t find ponchos to be universally long or wide and I am short. I had a Frogg Toggs poncho last summer. It was too short. Did not cover my whole pack so my butt got wet. I have a small 30L pack.

I’ve never had a poncho wide enough to cover my arms to my wrists. My Exped poncho is very long and I can hike it up if I get too warm. It is not wide so my forearms still get wet. I find this really annoying because then my sleeves get wet.

I’ve wanted a Packa but at 11-12oz for their lightest one that seems too heavy to me. The Exped was 7oz before I modified it and got almost a whole ounce off it. I could probably hem the rest of that ounce off and maybe put it back on as longer sleeves.

What I want to do someday is slice a hole in the back of my Lightheart gear rain jacket and put a pack cover on the back. I got my LH Gear rain jacket down to 5oz with modifications. Could go further if I eliminated the front zipper.

[Roger Caffin]

hood-and-shoulder ponchos
Really?
So I searched for ‘hood-and-shoulder ponchos”, and guess what I got?
Yeah, 5,000 womens’ fashion clothing!
Bill – suggestions please?

Cheers

[Ben Perry]

Please excuse the question, Patrick, but how can you tell when a jacket has wet out due to rain vs. due to sweat? In my experience, when a jacket wets out for any reason, it’s wet all the way through.

Personally, I use a mid-priced REI Gore-Tex jacket. When I’m car camping (and therefore not sweating), I can stand in rain for hours and stay dry on the inside. But when walking, unless it’s close to freezing I’m wet inside in minutes from perspiration. This suggests to me that the DWR works (or doesn’t work, depending on your perspective) as expected.

For what it’s worth, I sympathize with your situation. I’ve come to accept being wet when moving in rain. I wish it could be different.

[Steve Thompson]

I am in the poncho camp.  I have a Mountain Laurel Designs Cuben Pro Poncho/tarp.  Length-wise it covers down to mid-thigh (I am 6’2″), and width-wise to my elbows.  I use a shock cord “belt” to cinch it and minimize it flapping about.

I’ve had it on 2 trips that really tested it.  One, the NPT through the Adirondacks with plenty of brush and downed trees to navigate, with steady rain 4 or my 8 days.  Two, a meadering 2022 trip through the Sierra, a blend of trail and off trail, when the hurricane came inland, rained torrents 5 of my 9 days.  Other than my feet, I and my gear stayed completely dry.  Chock it up to a totally waterproof fabric and outstanding ventilation.  I catch an occasional snag, but as to staying dry this poncho is far superior to any raingear I’ve used in 55 years of backpacking.

[Bill Budney]

Hood and shoulders Ponchos:

https://lightheartgear.com/products/hoodie-pack-cover

https://www.mysteryranch.com/super-fly-pack-cover

I think there are others. These two are called “pack covers” rather than “ponchos”.

Diane: I think you are on the right track with the jacket and pack cover hybrid. I’d like to do that with an Outdry jacket. Still learning to sew, but I did make a prototype with a Frogg Toggs jacket. It works, but needs something extra to make it easy to put it on and off — maybe just a little more fabric. Still experimenting.

 

[David D]

I prefer my long poncho tarp. It lets me leave my rain kilt home.  Simple is good, one piece instead of two.  The shock cord belt takes care of the wide aspect.  I’m a steam stack and stay surprisingly cool in it.   I was bombed by rain on La Cloche Silhouette and it kept me dry from the rain and from getting drenched in sweat.

[Roger Caffin]

Thank you Bill.
Ah so: hoodie pack cover.

Cheers

[Thom]

GNU cape,  trail bum poncho

[Kevin Babione]

I have multiple Packas – an eVent one (16 ounces) from when he was making them.  I have a custom one made from WPB cuben that weighs around 15 ounces (this is my go-to).  I also have one of the newer sil-poly ones that my daughter uses.

I do most of my backpacking in PA or nearby states.  I’ve never had an issue with the pack cover not being big enough OR feeling that it’s too big.  My two primary backpacks are either a ZPacks Nero 30L or a ZPacks ArcZip 60L.  I really like that, like a poncho, the Packa covers the backpack straps so you don’t have to worry about rubbing the jacket under the straps.  And, because so much of our rain seems to be the start/stop/start variety, I love that I can keep my pack covered and cover myself when necessary (thanks Roger for the photos).

I get that they’re considered “heavy”, but the 15D in medium is 12 ounces and I love the functionality that I get for what I carry.  CYOR (Carry Your Own Raingear) :)

[Matthew / BPL]

Kevin turned me onto the Packa many years ago. I have the 10d version and it’s at 240g after I changed out the shockcord and cordlocks to lighter choices.

The breathability is wonderful with the shell over the top of the shoulder straps and the ability to don/doff while walking is really nice too.

I may have purchased mine one size too large. Maybe that’s an advantage because of increased airflow? It works great and makes sense to me at 8.5 ounces. It looks ridiculous but I’m not going for fashion in the backcountry…

[Dustin V]

Exped makes one called the Daypack poncho that has an internal belt and loops for your hands, ostensibly for cycling, but might work while using poles.

[bradmacmt]

It’s a shame no one makes a simple, light weight Cagoule in a PU coated nylon like Sierra Designs offered some years back. THAT would be a rain garment I’d be interested in.

[Bill Budney]

light weight Cagoule … like Sierra Designs offered some years back

Like this?

That is 3FUL’s “poncho with sleeves“. I’ve been calling it a “mountain poncho”.

[Dustin V]

I just ordered that exact poncho yesterday. I’ll post back here if it’s very good or very bad.

[MJ H]

The Sierra Designs cagoule was just a long coat, with no room for a pack under it. I’ve never seen one in person, but I recall almost buying one when they were cheap because they were discontinued. I still regret not buying it every time my butt gets wet when I’m wearing a jacket.

[bradmacmt]

Like this?

Nope, that’s just a poncho.

[bradmacmt]

The Sierra Designs cagoule was just a long coat, with no room for a pack under it. I’ve never seen one in person, but I recall almost buying one when they were cheap because they were discontinued. I still regret not buying it every time my butt gets wet when I’m wearing a jacket.

Well, yes and no. A true cagoule doesn’t have a FL zipper like a coat. Think of it as a long anorak. I have the 1st Gen Sierra Designs Cagoule. It’s really a great design with no zips, but includes underam vents and a pack waistbelt pass through. Problem with it is it’s made with a waterproof-breathable material that wets out quick. The second generation had a different, better fabric, but weighed a couple ounces more. Cagoules were popular when I started backpacking in the 1970’s, and they really are a good idea.

 

[AK Granola]

I have spent more of my gear money on rain gear than any other item type, without ever being satisfied with the result. I think the best experiences I have had are with the not-cheap but not-top-end choices like REI or Marmot raincoats, knowing that they will last 1-2 seasons, work really well, then delaminate and self-destruct. So I use them as throwaway gear, which is disappointing. But they keep me dry, breathe a bit, and then expire.

I have tried two higher end brands, spending way too much, and they both sucked; one just wet right through like Kleenex (Lightheart gear), the other (Zpacks Vertice) was good for a while, but with exertion, even with pit zips, I got soaked from inside. I just used it it in Ireland and was grateful for wearing a wool tshirt. I have also tried really cheap stuff and it does keep the wet out, and also keeps it in, so I’m fully wet regardless, just like the Vertice (for much less $$). I can’t imagine hiking slowly enough not to sweat, no matter the season. For rainy boating I love Helly Hansen, but it would be useless for hiking hard with a pack on. Great for in camp to stay warm and dry. I’ll always have a Helly on hand for non backpacking.

I have a Packa which I bought on a desperate whim, but I haven’t tried it yet. It is heavier than other options. I also worry about bushwhacking or scrambling in it; I doubt it would hold up to that sort of treatment, plus I might trip on it in a scramble. And it’s a bid fiddly to try to figure out how to get it on, and over the pack, although I imagine a few wearings and I’d learn. Maybe I’ll pack it along this summer, if i ever get to go anywhere, and give it a test.

The rain jacket blues needs to be a standard bit of the musical repertoire for all backpackers. Does someone want to write it?

[Bill Budney]

I have spent more of my gear money on rain gear than any other item type, without ever being satisfied with the result. …

I have also tried really cheap stuff and it does keep the wet out, and also keeps it in, so I’m fully wet regardless, just like the Vertice (for much less $$).

Sad but so often true. Good luck with your Packa. It goes over your pack, so will be more ventilated than jackets.

I have several different kinds of rain gear for different weather. For backpacking, it is difficult to pick just one, but an umbrella hat and poncho come close.

I recently put a pack cover OVER the back of my poncho. It holds the poncho in place, somewhat like a Packa or mountain poncho. My poncho has a full-length front zipper (I cut open the front of all of my ponchos), so I can pull it on or off like a jacket. It worked well enough to be worthy of further testing.

[Roger Caffin]

I also worry about bushwhacking or scrambling in it; I doubt it would hold up to that sort of treatment,
We had the same worry with our silnylon ponchos in the rather harsh Oz scrub. Somewhat to our surprise we found that the WET silnylon fabric slid over all the scrub without catching, even the spiky stuff.

Cheers

[Kevin Babione]

It looks like Eddie updated his Packa inventory as of May 21 and has some closeout models available for as low as $28 or $48 (plus reasonable shipping) if anyone wants a pretty low-risk way to try one.  Here’s the link to make it a little easier:  The Packa Ordering

[Perry Clark]

I’m glad to see/read that I’m not the only one disappointed in the wet-out phenomenon apparently universally experienced by users of WPB jackets. My response has been to mitigate the problem with long sleeves underneath, to mitigate the clammy feeling of a wet fabric laid against the skin, even if I’m not technically ‘wet’—the consideration of which raises questions about how one defines ‘wet’. But I digress. The long sleeves (usually, for me, a nylon Columbia PFG shirt) of course raises other issues. Way back when, a sturdy silnylon poncho was my thing, but the weight of that, combined with limited utility in common circumstances, reduced the pleasure of that choice.

It seems to me the primary solution is one of ventilation. Sufficient ventilation—including when adorned with a pack—is the key, really, to avoiding the clammies. But, just like the arguments my wife and I have over open windows at home, there are pros and cons with ‘ventilation’, too.

[Sam Farrington]

Have bought and used Patagonia H2No WPB jackets for many years when found on sales. The most recent were the versions dubbed “M-10”.  They may not still carry this name.  The last two I purchased have been treated well, so have not worn out.  Should also note that I’ve been employed all my life, so only have been able to trek about a month at a time.  For end-to-end longer treks and long, heavy rain, the Patagonia jackets might not do as well.

Also, many perspire more than I do.  Agree with the above posts, that for some folks, even the best WPB’s may not keep them dry on lengthy treks in heavy rain all day.  However, I hike at a moderate pace, and take care with the gear.  Also, use under garments that do not overheat and are suitable for the conditions.  So carry a polo shirt as well as a warmer fleece shirt.

Would never throw a jacket in a washer, or let it get scratched up or dirty.  When clean and dry, they are kept that way in WP sacks.  And hike at higher altitudes when possible where the temperatures are lower.

So wanted the OP and some other folks to know that for some , it is possible to hike all day in downpours and stay dry.  For others, that may be impossible, and short ponchos like Roger makes, may be the best available approach.   The posts on BPL are legend, and are worth a look.

Please note that I also use WPB gaiters that cinch above mid sized boots.  In the worst case, rain pants can be worn under the jacket, so the rain can drain off over the rainpants, over the gaiters, and onto the ground.

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