rain chaps or rain “skirt”?

[Mike M]

I’m not a fan of rain pants and am looking for an alternative- I’ve eyeballed both chaps and skirts.

pros or cons with either?

TIA

 

[Ben C]

I’m a skirt guy.  Good ventilation.  Light. Simple. Easy on and off. Seems durable. A little restriction if climbing. Not the most manly look ;)

[J R]

+1, for same reasons plus also the skirt is an easier DIY project.

[Jerry Adams]

I must be more manly : )

I prefer a long jacket that goes down almost to my knees.  DIY.  I’m sure someone sells a longer jacket.

[Bob Shuff]

I’m sure someone sells a longer jacket.

Packa?

I always follow these rain gear threads with interest, but very little experience to share.  SoCal just ended it’s “rainy season” with less than 1/2 of average – some parts were ~3″ of the ~10″ average from Oct-Apr.  We typically get less than 1″ for the May-Sep season.

That being said, I do plan trips in places that rain.  I have a Philmont trip during monsoon season this summer, and I’m seriously considering the rain-skirt or kilt.  The multi-purpose use as a makeshift ground cloth appeals to me.  I can’t say I’ve researched chaps, but I wouldn’t think they would serve the same purpose.

[Mike M]

thanks for the input thus far

two possible concerns- the mention of some interference with the “skirt” climbing concerns me as going up and over blowdown is inevitable- I think with chaps it’s less of an issue

concern two is with the chaps- by their nature there is a fair amount of exposure to the upper femoral area as well as the groin- great for warm weather (where I wouldn’t probably even bring rain bottoms), but cold wet weather potentially not so great

[Ben C]

As to the skirt, going over blowdown is a legitimate concern.  Mine has a slit in the back that makes it a little less of a concern though.

[Geoff Caplan]

Been giving this some thought recently, and I think a lot of the issues stem from the current vogue for very short jackets.

When I was a kid in Scotland we all used cagoules that went down to the knee. I did hundreds of hillwalks in this setup, and it’s perfectly fine to walk in.

I’m thinking that if I go back to a longer jacket like this, it will handle light rain on its own with no need of a kilt.

For more protection, the long jacket will provide ample coverage for chaps. Chaps are easier to put on than rain pants, and will vent far better.

Two bits of kit for full protection. With a rain kilt, I’m carrying the jacket and kilt, and my lower legs are still unprotected.

The only problem is finding a lightweight rain jacket that’s long enough. So it’s another MYOG project, I fear…

[Diane Pinkers]

Climbing in the skirt is no problem, you just need to be able to have a slit.  Wore my Zpacks rain skirt scrambling up and over headlands and rocks on a hike on the Olympic Peninsula beach.  Also can sit on wet rocks/logs with the skirt, with no fear of a wet butt.  With chaps, you need to make sure that your jacket is long enough so that when you sit down, you still have coverage. Plus, the ability to lay the skirt flat for a groundcloth is nice when you need something to put stuff on when packing or unpacking your pack without getting things dirty.

[Miner]

I vote for the rain skirt.  I’ve used a short above the knee length over shorts without them being too hot in warmer weather when you don’t want them getting wet as you know they won’t dry out by the next day (think AT in the warmer months).  I’ve also used shin length ones in cooler mountain weather.  Definitely much better ventilation than pants, though the advantage improves the shorter they are.  I still prefer rain pants in cold weather when I want the added warmth.  When I hiked the PCT a few years ago, for Washington in September, I brought really lightweight wind pants for the added warmth and a rain skirt for the real rain.  Combo was lighter than most real rain pants and covered all my bases.

I personally don’t like how the chaps hang off the waist, at least MLDs design.  More work to get it just right.  I feel like I’m putting on a garter.  Also more stress on the attachments when having to step up high.  Rain skirts are simple to put on and allow for more ventilation, can be used as a ground cloth for sitting, you can sit on wet ground while wearing them (chaps will get your butt wet), some designs can be attached to the end of a tarp for extra rain protection(done that), less effort to step up on rock stairs than chaps (most designs attachments will give when needing to step up really high).

Zpack’s current zipper design is the worst design ever for giving if you need it to.  Their original wrap around rain skirt was one of the best.  ULA’s and Etowah’s 3 short velcro attachments to close the skirt separate easily enough when under stress so they give on their own when they really need to.  I’ve never had any problems with Etowah’s design (ULA use to outsource to them in the Brian days) in the Sierras.  MLD’s design, I believe is a wrap around, but I could be mistaken.  I’ll know in 2 weeks when the one I ordered arrives (about the only cuben fiber one available if you don’t like Zpacks).  LighHeart’s is a warp around and looks like a real skirt but very well made from the one I saw, though a bit heavier than other designs.  And I’ve heard you can make your own wrap one around easily enough if you are DIY inclined.

As for wearing a longer jacket, that usually adds more weight than a rain skirt.  This forum is about backpacking lighter after all. :p

[Ken Thompson]

Another happy skirt convert here.

[Michael Sirofchuck]

Rain skirts can be had for $12 US on Aliexpress.com – however, they are shipped from China, so it takes a while.  I have  MLD, a Zpacks, and Jimmy Tarp rain skirts.  MLD is by far the best with the slit in the back.  Jimmy is the simplest – it’s a CF cylinder with with a draw cord waist – it is, however, longer than the other two.

[Geoff Caplan]

What do you rain-skirt users do about protecting your lower legs? And how do the skirts hold up in high winds?

If you’re wearing shorts in sheltered and warm conditions, I can understand how a skirt would work. But that’s quite a narrow range of application, particularly in areas like Northern Europe, Alaska, Canada or NZ…

What do you do if you wear hiking pants? Or if you’re on a exposed ridge with a gale driving sleet onto your legs? Wearing wind pants and letting the lower legs wet out seems decidedly sub-optimal in cold conditions.

And why would a longer jacket weigh more? If anything, I’d have thought it would be a touch lighter, given that you get similar coverage without the need for an additional waistband or an overlap at the back.

A decent long jacket will protect your butt when you sit down, and doesn’t restrict movement – we used them for technical climbing without any issues. And it plays well with hip belts, which I’d have though might be more of an issue with skirts.

I do accept that badly designed chaps could be a problem with high stepping, but so would a badly designed skirt. It shouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to design a functional chap setup with a secure waistband and articulated knees – it would be a nice MYOG project or custom commission if you can’t find anything ready-made.

If you’re a shorts-wearer who walks in predictably warm and sheltered conditions the skirt might well be ideal. But so far as I can see, the jacket/chaps combination should work in a far wider range of situations. Or am I missing something here?

[Jerry Adams]

A long jacket would weigh a tiny bit less, depending on materials and so forth.  With a skirt, there’s overlap at the waist so more material.

With a long jacket it’s looser around the waist, so there’s more air flow.  And if conditions allow you can unzip the jacket completely and there’s even more air flow.

[Ben C]

High winds don’t seem to be a problem with a rain skirt.  I generally wear shorts, even in cold weather, and don’t worry too much about the lower legs getting wet.  As long as I’m on the move, wet calves don’t bother me.  If it’s a really cold trip, I’ll typically take rain pants.

[BC Bob]

I like my Poncho with it’s built-in skirt.  I just made a simple waist belt (7 g) for it yesterday for windy conditions.

[Bob Shuff]

OP can say what conditions he’s thinking about.  For me, rain pants in cold is a given.  I’m looking for something when rain pants are too hot.  Lower legs can get wet.  I’m trying to keep my torso dry from rain or sweat as much as possible.

[Mike M]

this is for a rather unique set of conditions- there is going to be a lot of blowdown to contend (a month before trail crews get started and even then, many trails don’t see a trail crew for years). Rain pants would have a high probability of getting shredded. They also don’t typically offer the mobility needed. Weather could easily be on the cold side.

I think I might have a possible work around. I’m carrying a polycro ground sheet already- fashion that into a loin cloth like affair in combination with chaps. Chaps should offer the mobility I need, give me protection to a little below knee level; the polycro “loin cloth” protection up front without hindering mobility.

We’ll see :)

[Miner]

Perhaps, I’m lacking in imagination, so explain to me how the difference in weight between the waist length and butt length rain jackets with it’s heavier waterproof breathable material which is usually multiple layers laminated together isn’t heavier than a single light layer rain skirt.  The added length of the jacket with that material should be at least 2-3oz I would think.  And all it gets you is butt coverage and doesn’t help cover even the length of a typical pair of shorts let alone long pants length.  A ankle length rain skirt in sil-nylon weighs ~2.9oz.  But in Cuben fiber is ~2oz.  A shorter Knee length skirt would be much lighter.   With the butt length jacket, you still need something additional such as Chaps to cover your leg.  So I’ll take my shorter jacket and rain skirt for complete coverage for less weight then a longer jacket + whatever to get the same overall coverage.  Though if you are talking about a long poncho with butt coverage instead of a jacket, that is a different matter and the poncho will likely win out.  But you trade weight for even more wind issues then a skirt will have and lose some warmth retention (which may or may not be wanted).

As for your leg coverage in a skirt.  Rain skirts come in various lengths from various makers.  It isn’t hard to find the length one wants based on their needs.  The longest one I personally own leaves about 2-3 inches at the bottom of my full length pant legs exposed, so the very bottoms of my pants do get wet.  That small amount is not a particular issue even in cool weather as it isn’t stealing much warmth considering there are often wool socks under the same area in question.  If temperatures are starting to get down to freezing, I prefer rain pants over chaps or skirts just for the added warmth factor and I still find the bottom inch or so of my hiking pants get wet anyway.  But for most 3 season hiking, rain skirts work just fine., even with a little snow.  And if the temperatures are warm, or you are generating a lot of heat, having your lower legs exposed while getting them wet while wearing shorts isn’t usually an issue till you stop in camp, but you do have something dry to put on right?

As for wind, it depends on what type of wind you are referring to and the design of the skirt.  Wrap around skirt designs, while being better for making big step ups, are less desirable in strong winds.  But most rain skirt designs attach together so they aren’t going to flap.  In very high winds, you’ll get the same body hugging on the wind side as you see with woman’s full length skirts, but the weight of the long length will keep the bottom down, especially when the material is wet. Now shorter above knee length ones will rise in that kind of wind so you will get even the bottoms of shorts wet, though if you are wearing a rain skirt that short, you probably aren’t worried about being cold.  And how often do people hike in 20mph+ winds for an extended amount of time.  While I have, it isn’t that common as normally you hike out of that sort of wind pretty fast unless you remain on a ridgeline for miles. But like most UL gear, you bring the right gear for the conditions you expect to encounter.

Blow downs aren’t going to shred rain skirts any worse than chaps.  Any lightweight material can be an issue.  Just be careful going over that the hem doesn’t get caught on a branch stub.  I’ve found that blowdowns aren’t really an issue unless the tree type is the kind full of branches that you have to push through or you have to drag part of yourself over them due to how big they are while dodging barbs where broken branches use to be.  In which case, you really need heavy rain pants, not an UL rain pant/skirt/chaps.

[Edward Jursek]

I often carry a cuben poncho/ground sheet, cuben rain skirt and cuben chaps. The whole set weights very little and provides a ton of flexibility. Usually the rain skirt is a ground sheet for my gear, but in cold really crappy weather I have worn all three at once. Usually it is just the poncho and I add the chaps for heavier rain. Chaps alone  are also great hiking through wet undercover and meadows after rain or early in the morning.

[Graham F]

Here’s a good link to a cheap one and my review of the 3FUL kilt

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=27532

I hope I am allowed to link in this way.

Cheers

[Geoff Caplan]

Hi Miner

Thanks for the detailed outline of your system.

As you say, the trick is to match the kit choice to the conditions. I suspect the key to our different outlooks is your question “how often do people hike in 20mph+ winds for an extended amount of time?” That raised a wry smile, as I’ll often be walking for hours in 50mph+ with little shelter. On my last walk in the Lakes there were a couple of exposed spots where I had to crawl for safety. This is pretty routine in these parts…

As I’ve said, my plan is to go back to the nylon cagoules of my Scottish youth, in the days before Goretex. They were pretty popular for a time in France and Scotland, and in the US Patagonia actually imported them from the Scottish manufacturer:

I used them for hundreds of days in the hills, often in the foulest conditions. Although the fabric didn’t breathe, we were never cold even though we’d get damp from sweat. Obviously, they never wet out, they don’t need DWR maintenance and they last for ever (I had one in the car on tyre-changing duties till quite recently). We would vent by loosening our hip straps from time to time. For rest stops you can pull it over your knees for a kind of bivy. Pretty functional garment all round.

They were made with neoprene nylon, which made them quite heavy. My plan is to replicate the broad idea, but in a tough 6.6 silnylon, and with a LOT more ventilation (3/4 zip, pit zips & vents). This would be light enough for an ultralight setup. As you can see, I get the coverage of a skirt for around the same weight. Ideally I’d prefer something like Roger Caffin’s well-vented Mountain Poncho, but I use an Aarn-style bodypack so this isn’t practical as I wouldn’t be able to see my feet. The cagoule is looking like the next best option. Sierra Designs revived the idea recently and it’s used by Andrew Skurka, so how bad can it be?

In rain I’d have the choice of wet calves (warm conditions, wearing shorts), chaps, or knee-length gaiters.

Looks totally naff, but I’m past the age of caring. And it’s still less naff than a skirt! Actually this is a bit of an issue – the idea of walking into a remote Icelandic/NZ/Slovenian/Wyoming community in a skirt… Hmmm.

 

[Gerry B.]

Ryan Jordan likes to wear rain pants that are cut just below the knee…another option.

[Nick Gatel]

What do you rain-skirt users do about protecting your lower legs? And how do the skirts hold up in high winds?

No problem in wind. And as mentioned, keeping the big thigh muscles covered (e.g., warm) is the key.

[Nick Gatel]

As to the skirt, going over blowdown is a legitimate concern.  Mine has a slit in the back that makes it a little less of a concern though.

Yes, this is the only downside. Perhaps a larger (wider?) skirt would be the answer.

[Author]

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