Philmont PASS course

[Tim P]

Has anyone taken the one day or one evening courses? What was your impression?

I see where Gerry (@geeteeh) took the one day course.

[Gerry H]

I took the Baltimore Area Council session October 14. My impression was overwhelmingly positive.

The instructors were Philmont staff, a Ranger/Ranger Trainer and the director of the Dan Beard staff camp. They both had worked at PSR 5 years or so, and had been campers prior to that. They were engaging, and they had every piece of Philmont issue gear and a rental pack. The new tarps are by MSR, 2 lbs. and some ounces. Robust without overkill.

The morning was indoors, then we had PSR surplus lunches outside. After that we split in half and setup Philmont crew campsites, including the bear bag (half setup and took down the “canvas”, the other half did bag hanging, then swapped). Then they made about 24 dinner servings “the Philmont way” that 60 of us split as for “sample size” portions.

The best thing I got out of it was the “why” behind Philmont rules, based on their personal observations. It was like a Philmont-themed version of the Farmers Insurance commercial (we’ve seen a lot…). But it wasn’t all “if that crew had only listened to us”, there were some cases of crews finding their own solutions.

They have me almost convinced to cook Philmont style (still on the fence). Oh, they both said that any ranger will breathe a sigh of relief when they see an advisor come off the bus with a PASS patch on their uniform. I’ll tell you in July if that is true.

[TAG in AZ]

Agreed. I did the evening course here in Phoenix (Grand Canyon Council). It was worth the time. It was a good overview. The most helpful was the discussions regarding what to focus on during our training hikes.
Don’t fight cooking the Philmont way. Just go with it. Fighting will only make it worse. Focus your energy on keeping pack weight down. You’ll never convince anyone at Philmont to change. And, remember…always take the tortillas.

[John O]

I went to the same one-day course as Gerry.

Joe and Harrison were well-versed in the process and procedures with true experience under their belts.  As Gerry described, it was overall a positive experience and the information was good reinforcement of the online resources out there, e.g. shakedown guides, how-to-videos that are available on the PSR website.  There were no significant deviations from what PSR already advertises.

The real value added was being able to ask questions from the perspective from the eyes of a Ranger/Ranger Trainer.  It was interesting that this was the first I’ve heard of the “mini bears” which is helpful and it was great to hear how they address emergency situations and what procedures they perform.

[Gerry H]

BTW, I highly recommend getting the BAC Advisors Guide. It has a lot of Philmont veteran guidance.

http://www.bacphilmont.org/

One other thing of note – Joe and Harrison mentioned that Philmont has gotten much “wetter” just over the last few years. According to them, insects can actually be a nuisance, and there are more stream crossings than just a few years ago. My SM who last went in 2010 had me convinced bugs were non-existent at PSR.  [ the terrible flash flood incident several years ago was mentioned at some point during the day, might have been a sidebar ]

[Bob Shuff]

I took the 2 hour workshop in San Diego and was glad I did.  Lots of notes about the gear and enough time to ask the questions I needed.  If you expect to have a lot of questions, do the whole day version.   2 hours was not a lot of time to cover what they wanted and still keep it interesting with stories they had from personal experience.  I decided to skip the all-day workshop the following weekend, which is good because it was HOT and a long drive from home.

I came into this thinking, as it seems many do, that my way was better than Philmont methods, but along the way I’ve had the epiphany that it’s wrong (for me) to fight it.  First – we’re going for the boy scouts and they are there for the programs and camaraderie – to experience Philmont.  They don’t care what pot or tent they use for the most part.  If you want to teach them how to do a long lightweight backpacking trek, there are plenty of less crowded places to do that.  Secondly – Philmont’s staff must be amazing to have this many visitors come through each season, and equip them with almost everything they need for a 7/12 day backcountry experience, and get them all their food and supplies when/where they need it.  We should give them a break if they want these things to be consistent.

I did mention that I came from a lightweight backpacking mindset, and they smiled with a genuine “go for it”, because the scouts will carry the white-gas stove and containers, the 2x 8 quart pots, tents, dining tarp, bear rope, etc.  They know from experience that most scouts are in sports and will come prepared physically or get into shape during the hike.  Scouts are tough on gear, and the workshop guys essentially said, let them use our gear – that way the troop or personal gear will not take the beating and it will be there for other treks. It’s the adults (I’ll speak for myself) that need to train more and should have a lighter pack to keep up over the course of the trek.  Luckily, the adults can take better care of the lighter gear so they should lighten up as much as possible.

We’ve got (2) crews starting arriving July 15th.  There’s a lot more to do, and the workshop really helped me get my head around what I need to work on (training for adults, getting there and home, practice for the scouts in breaking camp), and what I don’t need to worry about (gear that Philmont provides)

[Gerry H]

After I saw how quickly the trainers got the Philmont pot clean, I am 95% convinced it is the simplest way to go. I think the biggest hang-up I have is some of my other troop crews’ advisors inertia. Luckily the advisors on my particular crew were at the training, and reached the same conclusion as me.

The comment about over-thinking things as an adult has become my mantra – I keep seeing it in multiple sources. Another thing I keep seeing is that unprepared advisors are the weakest link in the crew. So I’m lightening up my stuff where I can justify the long-term cost. I am still working down toward “lightweight”…

[Gerry H]

BTW – does anyone know how tightly they police the “no tents bigger than 2 persons” policy that was presented at the recent training? We have a Venture crew with 3 youth and 2 adult females, and a scout crew with three advisors.

Neither crew wants to have to buy someone a solo tent when we have a pair of nice sub 6 pound three person tents “on the shelf”. Also, I can’t see how a 3 person tent takes up more room than a 2 person and a solo tent.

[Bob Shuff]

They seemed pretty firm at the workshop.  I didn’t get that it’s the overall space used so much as the size of the individual tent spaces, but others have told me that tents are at least sometimes wall to wall to wall.  I’m sure the various camps differ in this regard.

You might make your case to your coordinator at Philmont with your 3 person tent dimensions and reason.  It sounds reasonable.  Others can reply if they’ve tried to make this case before.  My sense is if you ask permission to deviate (which they hear alot) they are well practiced at saying summarily “No”.  You could always get a very light 2 person tent for the odd-person out.  The MSR Thunder Ridge tents weigh 5 lbs 13 oz – not counting the stakes, which you have to bring along separately.

[TAG in AZ]

RE: >2 man tents. We didn’t have any problem using 3 man tents. I shared a Triplex and we have 3 scouts in another 3 man tent. We had a few small campsites, but in general, we had plenty of room to spread out — especially at our trail camps. Some of the staffed camps had smaller sites since they were trying to squeeze more people in.
I can’t remember ever getting feedback from a Ranger about tenting. Several years ago, we used 4 man pyramid style tents (with sewn in floor and netting) and never heard anything.

RE: Advisor tents – we had no issue with Advisors in solo tents. Rangers really want participants to share, but understand if advisors want to solo tent.

[Gerry H]

We must have the rarest troop in the US – many of our adults actually prefer sharing tents, snores and all. I think we all adopted the KISS principle when it comes to setting up camp. As a bonus, half of the time you don’t need to air out a tent Sunday afternoon. I think one adult owns a solo tent, never seen it on a trip yet.

I suppose I need to get some ground dimensions for our three man tents. I know the Thunder Ridge “ideal” is 33 square feet (88″ x 54″). I assume that does NOT include a margin for any stakes. Then I can start calling PSR.

[Brad P]

I’m organizing our troops 2019 Philmont trip (well, the part that an adult must do) and another assistant scoutmaster and I are considering heading out to Philmont next year for the 4 day training course.  Our troop is mostly car camping, so I think it will be helpful and we see it as a mini vacation.  :)

[Gerry H]

I read that in 2015 the first year they ran the 4 day course they even provided the bus from Denver. All for $99 bucks. I would have jumped on that even if I wasn’t planning on going on a trek.

Oh well, hind-sight…

[Brad P]

That would be even better!!

[Tim P]

Based on the feedback posted here, I took the PASS course yesterday.  I found it useful.  The instructors clearly went through the Philmont way.  It might not be the way I would do everything, but they clearly explained how and why.  They have 20,000 people on the ranch per year, so they have some tried and true methods.  I went with an adviser who went last year and he felt it was worthwhile.  He got more out of the organizational information and suggestions.  I enjoyed that, plus seeing first-hand their logic on meals, tents and tarps.

I found it funny when they said, “As with all Boy Scout events, we’re giving you a patch at the end.”

[Brad P]

Hahaha!  That is good.  :)

[Charles L]

Are the PASS courses only in the Fall?

 

[Tim P]

yes. they only offer PASS in the fall.

[Brad P]

Oh, that’s a bummer. I was hoping it would be open in the spring, too. Thanks for the info.

[David Y]

Three-man tents. Philmont allows 3-man backpacking tents, we’ve used them for that one odd number of camper rather than carry another (solo) tent. If we have an odd number of adults and Scouts we except that a dad tents with his son, usually a more mature Scout that does not need that youth comradery.

Philmont strongly discourages solo tenters except for an odd number of campers. Philmont (and Scouting) is all about the “buddy system” for Scouts and adults. And there are few flat, level and well drained tent sites in most camps, you’ll be lucky to find 4 or 5 good ones .

We understand and believe in Philmont’s methods and techniques, we just improved on some slightly and have never had push back from our Rangers.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured”, David Young

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