Philmont first-timer – pack list for July 2018

[TAG in AZ]

Counterpoint. Why carry a 20 degree bag for 11 days in the backcountry if you are only likely to see 1 or 2 nights near freezing? Wouldn’t it make more sense to simply wear an extra layer (or 2) on those “cold” nights than carrying a heavier bag. I carried a 30 degree EE quilt and didn’t have any issues on our late July trek.

Re: Notch – Philmont asks the Scouts to share tents. This is because some of the sites are fairly small and for YPT reasons. For adults, there is no such rule. Our crew had 2 adults in solo tents last year and the Rangers had no issue.

[David Y]

About boots and camp shoes.

You need waterproof boots/footwear because you may be hiking in the rain. Trails can be muddy mini streams during rain. Philmont requires everyone to hike on (or in) their trails, no creating new paths alongside their trails, it damages the fragile environment and promotes erosion.  And absolutely no short-cutting switch-backs.

You need to get your feet out of your trail boots/footwear and socks every afternoon to rest and dry your feet and socks for help prevent blisters. Any closed toe footwear that will allow air to dry your feet and protect them from sharp rocks, sticks and pine cones will do. Crocs are a good choice, very light and thick enough sole so you can’t feel rocks, etc.

You need to change into fresh clean socks every morning to help prevent blisters. You may apply BodyGlide to hot spot each morning before putting on your socks. You will need to launder socks in camp every other day or so to avoid carrying more than two sets of liners and hiking socks. Use a two-gallon freezer-grade re-sealable plastic bag with a few drops of Campsuds and stream water and sump the dirty soapy water.

[Bob Shuff]

Thanks Steve, David and TAG for all the advice.

I’ve read the guidebook to adventure and a very well written resource by the Baltimore Area Council and National Capital Area Council.  You can get it online for a small fee to cover their expenses.

Big News is we got our first choice Itinerary – 10 – which includes 2 camps at or above 10,000′ before and after we summit Mt. Phillips.  No dry camps, and 2x 4 day food resupplies.  Lots of shootin’ and lots of fun.  The adult advisors are getting more excited and interested in details (like me).  Our other crew from the troop got Itinerary 20 – their second choice.    Four of the scouts and one of the adults from that crew has been to Philmont before – some twice.

I really appreciate the advice given here.  I will consider taking my 20* Hammock Gear quilt instead of the 30* EE, it’s a little bit narrower so I need to try it on the ground.  I think with my extra clothes the 30* EE should be fine

I’m not planning to take the waterproof boots.  I frankly haven’t backpacked like that for years.  If I recall, feet (and boots) get wet anyway when it rains, and I know the trail runners dry out a LOT faster.  I think enough people have confirmed this method at Philmont to plan for it.  The key is to keep the pack weight down.  I’m considering a rain quilt, or could use my frogg togg pants – not sure which looks more geeky.

I may still share a thunder ridge tent with another adult (or my son if his tent buddy were to bail), but the plan right now is that the other two male adults and single female adult advisors will sleep with their sons.  All the other scouts have tent buddies.  I would be the odd man out.  I’m open to share if this dynamic changes.

Rethinking the electronics constantly.  Still plant to try some solar panels to supplement, but haven’t decided which ones.

[David Y]

I’m just quoting from 2018 Philmont Guidebook to Adventure page 14, “Philmont will allow a single person tent in the event of an odd numbered crew, gender numbers and for youth protection compliance.” That rule applies to all campers, not just youths, and there is not much room for interpretation.

In the times I have been with full crews of 12 all campers, adults and youth, were required to sleep two to a tent unless there was an odd number of campers or an odd number of mixed gender campers such as an individual female adult.

With a less than full crew of 12 maybe Ranger enforcement of Philmont’s rules vary by individuals and experience give some exception. But don’t rely on getting by on rules you’ve got by on in the past. You may have a dilemma. It’s best to plan to abide all Philmont’s rules.

We prefer the Scouts tent with Scouts and adults tent with adults. This gives all Scouts more equality and the same autonomy, less father and son partnerships. When you partner with your son it takes him out of the group. Of course with odd numbered adults and/or odd numbered Scouts, or an individual female adult, a parent and son may need to tent together, but not all.

[Bruce Tolley]

In my experience the Ranger exercised his discretion on the tent topic. We were a crew of 12. We had two adults in solo tarptents who both suffered from severe sleep apnea, which means any tent partner would not really sleep even with earplugs.

I packed a two person tent as backup just in case the Philmont ranger objected (which he did not).  The single person shelters were the SMD Lunar Solo tarptent.

 

[Brad P]

About boots and camp shoes.

You need waterproof boots/footwear because you may be hiking in the rain. Trails can be muddy mini streams during rain.

I believe many experienced backpackers will disagree with this.

Why “waterproof” shoes will not keep your feet dry

[Scott Walker]

When during July are you going?

For anyone who has not heard, Philmont Treks that start on or before July 14 have been cancelled due to a major wildfire that has just recently been contained.  The itinerary #10 passes through part of that area.  I hope you had a later July slot, or that you have been able to reschedule.

I am looking forward to seeing your final list, and your after-trip report on how it went.  I have been to Philmont 4 times, and I am going back in 2019.  On my second trip as a youth in 1988, I was the one who checked onto the trail with a 75 pound pack.  Note, that is not base weight, that is “full and wet”.  Full of heavy food, and every water container filled, since “why not”.

In 2005, I was amazed at how much better life was with a sil-nylon tent, a pack that weighed only about 5 pounds empty, and other improvements.  (Tent was a BA Seedhouse SL2, because I like space.)  In 2015, I got the bug (at least somewhat) towards going lighter.  I carried an Osprey Exos 58, but was still not as light as I could go.  2015 tent was a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3, which was wonderfully roomy for my son and I.  The crew did bring most of its own crew gear which helps a lot.  You need all of it before the trek for multiple preparation hikes, so you might as well bring your own better equipment.

IW2GB2P!  I am so glad that our plans for an early 2018 trip fell through last year and we scheduled for 2019 instead.

 

[Bob Shuff]

July 15.  Fingers crossed.  Philmont has said any changes to the itinerary will be announced around July 4.

[David Y]

Scot Walker said,

“The crew did bring most of its own crew gear which helps a lot.  You need all of it before the trek for multiple preparation hikes, so you might as well bring your own better equipment.”

I have to agree with that 100%.

Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.

[Bob Shuff]

I updated by LighterPack list with my latest list.  Here is the link:  https://lighterpack.com/r/akkfor

Major changes for me was the purchase of the Hanchor Marl backpack.  I’ve day hiked with it, but will take it on it’s first overnight for a shakedown on Mt. San Jacinto next weekend.  I also picked up a new rain shell and rain kilt.  Those decisions are made.

I’m still tweaking my layers, especially trying to guess if I should go with the lightest, warmest, or best-when-wet top layers for hiking and standing/sitting around camp. I’ve put a red star on items I may just jettison at the last minute, like the chair, extra lantern, ground sheet and pack cover.

I’ve also separated out what Philmont would refer to as Crew Gear, listing the items I’ll probably carry, because they belong to me.  Other advisors will carry certain crew gear items like first aid kits, repair kit and misc, and the scouts will carry the rest.  My son was elected crew leader and gets to decide who carries what for the pots, ropes, stoves, etc. etc.

Always open to suggestions and constructive feedback.  Thanks all for your advice.

[Brad P]

With all of the internal waterproofing, do you need the pack cover?

Do you need the lantern and flashlight?

If you have trekking poles, do you need the separate tent pole?

I have the chair zero. I’ve taken it to some car camping trips. It’s not as comfortable as I’d hoped. To be blunt, I lose circulation to the gluteus maximus area. I’m going to try putting my Gossamer Gear thinlight pad on it to see if that helps. I’m 6’3″ and 200 pounds, so maybe it’s too small for me.

As someone who has only done research and no experience, it looks like a very good list. Can you make notes during your trek of what works well, what didn’t, what you wish you’d brought and what you wish you’d left behind? Then post here. Those types of posts are very valuable.

I hope your crew has a wonderful time!

[Matt Dirksen]

Hi Bob,

Great list! I had a moment so I thought I’d run through your list (when trying to trim weight out of a pack, I always review everything in grams. It’s easier for me to knock things out at that scale.)

1. I’d recommend a ccf pad. – preferably an 1/8″ pad at a minimum. That way you have an improved sleeping arrangement and a backup if your pad fails. I used mine to lie down or sit by a tree or something – very versatile.
2. with a ccf pad, I’d leave the chair at home
3. Polycro – great – keep it – very light and double as a pack cover if you need it.
4. tent pole – really don’t need it if you have trekking poles. For those dayhikes where you need to keep your tent set up, I’m sure there will be something you can use so supplement your trekking pole.
5. Nano air jacket – Personally, I only brought a 131g down vest the last time I was at Philmont. Only wore it once. If I were to wake up a little chilly, I’d keep on the Smartwool till it warmed up a little.
6. Sleeping stuff – yup – I keep them all rolled up with my quilt & pad(s)
7. Crew shirt – I never wear tee shirts when hiking so I left my crew tee’s at base camp. (I used two OR Echo Zip LS shirts, about 120g each)
8. Wind shirt – I personally love them and use them all the time. I wore mine every day in the mornings & eventually took it off. And they can “take the edge” off a quick rainshower while hiking.
9. .Kilt – love them. can double as a sit pad protector if need be
10. Gaiters – since you have the Dirty Girls, I’d leave them behind
11. Buff – don’t need it
12. Rain mitts – it really won’t be needed – you aren’t dealing with hypothermic weather. With the fingerless gloves, you will be fine.
13. Warm cap – keep it
14. head net – really don’t need it
15. camp shoes – bring what’s comfy. (142g is light! is that for a pair?)
16. Don’t need lantern
17. flashlight – I left my H600 at camp and did fine with some clip on Photons (Olight makes a rechargeable 130Lm light that weighs 26g)
18. Personal first aid – make sure this isn’t too redundant with the crew kit. I also always have nail clippers, tick remover, and small scissors (perhaps your PS4?)
19. Chemicals – I’d dump out all the personal sunscreen,bug,spray, and lip balm in front of the crew & see how much all that stuff weighs together. Perhaps some doubling up would suffice. With long shirts, pants and a wide hat, I didn’t need sunscreen or bug spray (I dunk my clothes in permethrin). I had a small container of coconut oil which works great for lip balm, chafing, and is edible.
20. Nav kit – I’d hone in and make sure there’s not too much redundancy with the crew.
21. Space blanket – not needed – especially with a polycro
22. compass – (with your phone, watch & crew navigation redundancy – is this needed?)
23. Big car pack hanger – plain rope will do
24. hand cleaner – I don’t think you need it
25. bandanna – is this your only “towel” if so, I’d upgrade it to a pack towel. – more versatile, imho.
26. firestarter – don’t need
27. lighter – probably keep it but check group redundancy two or three lighters max. is probably fine for your whole group
28. Food & water – probably don’t need more than 3L max
29. Worn items – look good but I already talked about the shirt & I love using my OR fingerless gloves. I’d upgrade the race cap to a wider hat for better sun protection.
30. In Reach – With all the program in Philmont I really don’t think this is necessary. If you are heading to the Valle, it “might” be a convenient, but it’s really not a necessity.

YIS

Matt

[Bob Shuff]

@Brad P – great questions and comments.  I have two sets of trekking poles.  The lighter carbon-Z poles are not adjustable, so I ordered the tent pole.  It shipped yesterday after a long delay.  I have Aluminum poles that are adjustable.  I’ll try both and decide before departing.  Same with the pack cover and chair decision – yet to be made.  I’ll definitely do a start-stop-continue or lessons learned report.  Thanks!

@Dirk – thanks for taking the time to review and respond.  Great stuff. I appreciate you challenging many of the “10 Essentials” based on redundancy – I can’t disagree and “grams” do count, but it’s also hard to give up what has always been considered necessaries.  I’ll take another look at each – maybe again as a group in basecamp.  On the other items, I have a few follow-up questions:

1 & 2 – I just watched Chad of Stick’s Blog JMT video and he had the same thin pad for trail and camp.  Is there a brand you could recommend – how much does your weigh?  I like my chair-one for car camping, and understand there is a lot of camp time at Philmont, which led me to get the chair-zero.  I might still leave it behind for a z-seat at 2 oz, but that would not be as versatile as your thin pad.

5, 7 & 8 – My upper body layering is something I struggle with (and over think as others have said).  I’ve been noticing that I’m a lot colder lately than when I was younger so will need more than the sleep shirt and shell.  I started off with a down anorak at 6.7oz, but have been leaning towards the synthetic nano-air as I worried about more prevalent rain than I’m used to in SoCal.  For cold nights and mornings in camp, maybe the down anorak is enough.  I assume you are not often cold at trail breaks – even at altitude?  With the synthetic fill jacket, I would be more likely to have that at the top of my pack to put on for breezy stops if I thought it would be chilly while hiking – Overkill?

7 & 8 – I normally hiked with a SS synthetic or wool T shirt (5-8oz) and a rail-riders button front long sleeve travel shirt (~10 oz), which I figured was overkill.  I don’t know how much the custom crew shirts will weigh – Philmont just told me we’ll have to pick them up on arrival at ToTT, but I’m sure they are more than the 120g shirts you mentioned.  I’ll need to check those out.  Would you say they fit true to size?

10, 11, 12, 14, 16 – impressive that you could call out that many optional items (not to mention the other crew redundancies).  I’ll look at each of these.  You say no concern for hypothermia, but my training and little experience with altitude + weather has lead to this list.  None of these are heavy – most are the lightest version to meet a specific fear, such as cold damp weather at altitude.  Lightening up = leaving your fears behind.  Same question as above – are you never cold at altitude while resting on breaks or in camp?

11 & 25 – I have to admit I have duplicate rags.  I often find a use for the bandanna throughout the day, and hardly ever the buff.  How big of a towel to do you carry?  How heavy?  I’m sure I have one in my gear closet.

28 – I’m instructing the crew to have capacity up to 6 quarts/liters so that we don’t need to use any water jugs.  I’ll be happy to leave some capacity behind in basecamp once I see the water board.  Did the rangers push the crew on this during the gear check?  Did you use the purification tablets only or have you used filters and/or UV purifiers?

29 – I’ve gone back and forth between my Tilley hat, a desert cap with attached “scarf”, and this race cap.  I was leaning back towards one of the hats with better sun protection and your suggestion reinforces that thought.  FWIW…I just got back from a trip to Australia, and almost got a souvenir leather or waxed fabric wide brimmed bush hat.  The Tilley will have to do.

I may have other questions/comments.  Thanks again for the detailed reply.

-Bob

 

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Bob

Just some initial reactions:

I found that a zrest seat worked just fine at Philmont. If you want something with more cushio, Thermarest has an inflatable seat.

If your itinerary has some high camps (> 8000 feet) you might need a puffy and your sleep system might requre a puffy to augment your insulation. That being said, I think the latest nano from Patagonia is overkill since you will NEVER be hiking with the extra insulation from the puffy.

In reference to your upper insulation, it all depends on how high some of your camps are and how long you want to stay up talking with the other adults and the Scouts who need less sleep. I found that a LS baselayer plus my rain shell was enought. There were a few mornings when I wore my Montbell down UL sweater around camp.  Remember that you can always were your rain gear as an extra layer. And in worst case need, pull out your and wear dedicated sleep layer (which in my case was Patagonia silkweight poly base layer).

Yours in Scouting. Bruce

[Brad P]

I use a 1/8″ Gossamer Gear Thinlight pad under my inflatable pad for protection, keep it from moving and emergency backup pad.

https://www.gossamergear.com/products/thinlight-foam-pad

 

 

 

[SFOldManClan]

Found this over on Reddit, thought I would share here, as it has awesome advice and thrifty gear (wish I had seen this a couple months ago)
https://macon.me/shoestring

[SFOldManClan]

The two-man tent rule applies to Scouts only. Adults can go solo.

[Author]

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