Philmont Clothing – 2018 edition

[Bob Shuff]

I’m focused on clothing lately for our 7/15 trek (Itinerary 10).  We have a couple of nights above 10K and a couple more above 9K. I don’t get much practice hiking in rain here in SoCal, and cold/wet is a rare occurrence.  Should I plan for that at Philmont?  What I need for hiking warmth is a big question for me, as my down puffy will not be pulled out until camp (or emergency)

Here’s my current list.  Feel free to comment or post your own list for comparison.

Clothing Worn – Cotton Class A pants and short sleeve shirt, Neckerchief and slide, OA sash, BSA socks and cap.  Red wool shirt/jac – OK just kidding!  I’ll actually wear this (except the sash, cap and shirt/jac) for travel day as is our custom.

Hiking Clothes (Go):

• Custom ToTT Philmont/troop LS shirt (we ordered one each SS and LS in microfiber)
• Railriders Eco-mesh pants, Ex-Officio boxer briefs
• Darn Tough micro half-crew socks
• Altra Timp Trail shoes and dirty girl gaiters
• Tilley Air-Flow wide brimmed hat and sunglasses

Stop:

• Lighweight fleece (as needed – I have a military R1 w/o hood, might try to find something lighter
• Golight windshirt or Railriders LS shirt – haven’t decided about this, maybe in place of fleece
• I’ve thought about a Patagonia Nano-Air light regular hybrid for this purpose.

Storm:

• New rain jacket (needed) – my Patagonia Alpine Houdini leaked badly on a recent misty day
• Dutch rain kilt – I’ve requested on with a tartan print
• LUL Gaiters in place of the dirty girl gaiters
• Borah Gear eVent rain mitts

Sleep/Camp:

• Smartwool NTS 150 LS Crew – sleep
• Smartwool NTS 150 bottoms – sleep
• Bridgedale lighthiker wool socks – sleep
• Montbell EX-Lite Anorak
• Fleece cap

Extra:

• Nike running shorts w/ liner
• Second ToTT SS microfiber shirt
• Darn Tough Micro half-crew socks
• Buff
• Insect Shield headnet

The on-the-trail insulation and rain jacket are my primary concerns – everything else is well tested on previous weekend treks.  the LUL gaiters and rain kilt are new, based on BPL suggestions.

Have at it!

[Brad P]

My first trip is 2019. Do you have a trek that has you spending a night at a higher elevation?

My planned rain jacket is a North Face HyperAir GTX. Light and has good ratings. Rain pants are from Montbell.

I have a wind jacket, an R1 and a Uniqlo ultralight down jacket. I probably won’t take all 3. I just don’t know our trek yet. The Uniqlo jacket is pretty light, so even if I take it, it’s not killer weight.

[Bob Shuff]

We have 2 nights above 10K’ (Mount Phillips in between) and 2 nights more above 9K’  I don’t know how much time we’ll spend in camp (and not in our sleeping bags) at those elevations.  I’m pretty sure my wool sleep clothes, down puffy (7oz Montbell Anorak) and 30* quilt will keep me warm in the tent.

For hiking, besides the ToTT microfiber SS/LS (class B) shirts, I have the following I could take:

12 oz- Peckham Power Dry 1/2 zip pullover (R1 like)

10 oz – Railriders Journeyman LS button shirt with Insect shield

9.2 oz – TNF (capilene weight) LS quarter zip

7.5 oz – Patagonia Capilene (medium weight) – no zip

3.7oz – Golight wind jacket w/ hood (good wind protection – not very breathable)

These would be used for sun protection, in some cases wind or light thermal help.  I will have a separate rain jacket (more on that later), so I wonder sometimes if the windjacket is just extra when I can use the rain jacket instead.  If I’m going to hike in a thermal/fleece, I would like it to have a full zip, so while the Peckham was cheap here on BPL, I would probably prefer a lightweight fleece.  There’s an Arc’teryx Delta LT jacket on sale at REI (10oz), which would be easier to vent than any of the fleece/thermal’s above.  I picked up a Nano Air 50% off, because I always wanted one, but it was a size too large.  I’d looked at a Nano Air Light Hybrid, but it would be $200 – more useful if hiking in cold, but less useful to put on at stops.  This is my question.  I have a feeling that most of the time I will be warm, not cold, when hiking, so I probably just want something I can toss on when we stop for breaks.  A full nano air hoody could do that and replace my anorak in camp, but I think I want two pieces in case I do need to hike in cold rain in the morning or evening, keeping my down dry in the backpack.

I want to go as light as possible (obviously – I’m on BPL)

 

[Bob Shuff]

My rain jacket was an Alpine Houdini, but I just returned it as it leaked – probably delaminated.  I purchased on OR Helium II during their sale, but it was way too big – returned NWT.  I have a TNF Dryzzle using GTX Paclite (16 oz), but would like something lighter for backpacking.  I have a FroggToggs (5.9 oz),but would probably prefer something more durable for Philmont.  I’m considering the Patagonia Stretch Rainshadow (on sale at REI) or the REI Drypoint GTX or OR Helium II (using my REI coupon).  The Patagonia and REI jackets are 10 oz, and the OR is less.  My experience with cheaper rain shells (Precip, REI, Alpine Houdini) is that I carry them around in my pack, and when it finally rains I find it’s deteriorated and fails.  I’m done with that, so would prefer the lightest durable jacket I can afford.  Does anyone have feedback on these 3 jackets for performance, durability and value, or other suggestions at $200 or less?  If only I had $450 sitting around for The Shell.

[David Y]

You are over thinking your clothing issue. In Philmont’s Guidebook to Adventure suggested clothing list may also be overkill for the clothes needed and they suggest that.

Here is my list of all that I have carried the last seven times I’ve gone, and I suggest to all our crews to do similar. We’ve spent 4 or 5 nights on Mt Phillips and lots of other high camps as we usually do high numbered strenuous or very strenuous treks.

Clothing

Base layer, hiking clothes worn on the trail daily;                                           (No Cotton, “Cotton Kills”)

___Boots, sturdy hiking with good ankle support & waterproof                                          (well broken-in) ___Socks, 2 sets synthetic or wool blend, thin slick liners under thick padded hiking               (no cotton)

___Hiking shorts, nylon/synthetic with mess brief liner, lightweight & quick drying, loose fit     (no cotton)

___T-shirt, polyester / synthetic, lightweight & quick-drying, loose fit                                         (no cotton)

Warm layer, cool weather / cold evenings, packed in nylon stuff sack & plastic bags;

___Jacket, or cardigan sweater, lightweight polar fleece or synthetic fill                                   (no cotton)

___Long pants, nylon or polyester, may have zip-off legs (can be rain pants)                           (no cotton)

___Camp shoes, comfortable closed toe shoes, lightweight & quick drying            (no open toe sandals)

Top layer, wet, windy or cold; readily accessible at all times (never go anywhere without it) (A)

___Rain suit, parka & pants, sturdy waterproof/breathable nylon, loose-fit for layering (A)   (no ponchos)

I’ve read where some people carry a warmer than 20⁰ sleeping bag to reduce weight then carry more clothes to sleep in. Since clothes are heavier than sleeping bag fill that seems to be counterproductive.

 

[Bob Shuff]

Hi David Y,

Over thinking my gear?  How dare you!  Ok. I resemble that remark :) Only on BPL where I feel like It’s a safe place those of us with that affliction.  Just trying to learn from others, especially when the Guide to Adventure seems a little too much.

So do you find the TShirt and rain jacket is enough for most days, even with early starts at altitude?  Even in SoCal I often start the day’s hike with some insulation layer, and rain jacket only if raining.

What “Jacket, cardigan sweater, lightweight polar fleece or synthetic fill“ item do you wear in camp?

[Brad P]

I’m working on something to send to our troop about Philmont gear and will recommend against waterproof boots.

https://andrewskurka.com/2012/why-waterproof-shoes-will-not-keep-your-feet-dry/

[Bob Shuff]

I’ve all but decided to wear my Altra Timp Trail trail runners, and no camp shoes.

[Bruce Tolley]

@Bob: This is BackpackingLIGHT and we are here to work on reducing packweight and experimenting with gear. As as Scouters we aim to be frugal so multi-use and DIY gear is even better.  In reference to shoes/boots even the last edition of Backpacker Magazine recommended against GoreTex lined shoes for (desert ) backpacking. The Goretex just turns the shoes into buckets that hold water and makes it impossible for the shoes to dry out. So yes, Goretex makes your feet wetter.

Our Philmont Ranger recommended just a rain shell over a baselayer.  For most of our Scouts that was enough. We did have some high 9 and 10K elevation camps including Mt Phillips where we had a hail and sleet storm. So you can go to bed but some of us found if we wanted to stay up later, that a lightweight syn puffy sweater was very handy such as the Montbell UL Thermawrap Jacket @ 8.5 oz for Men’s medium.

[David Y]

Bob, glad you have a sense of humor about all this.

I wear a The North Face 100 gram full zip fleece jacket after sunset or sitting out a rain or hail fall most afternoons. Other brands like Patagonia, Marmot or even Campmor are equal. If it gets colder I put on my Marmot Precip rain parka. If it gets colder I put on my Marmot Precip full zip rain pants. If it gets still colder I go to bed in my Mountain Hardware 20⁰ down sleeping bag in just my clean spare set of hiking shorts and T-shirt, thus I’m sleeping in clean no food smell clothes and dressed for the next day.

In the mornings we get up an hour before sunrise so I strike our tent and pack-up in just my hiking boots, shorts, T-shirt and fleece jacket. We hit the trail a half hour later and I hike without a warm layer as most camps are in valleys next to streams so most morning trails are up steep mountain so you warm-up very fast.

I suggest you have some camp shoes to get your feet out of your hiking footwear and socks to relax and dry out (blister prevention) and to slip on for late night nature calls. Drinking gallons of water every day usually requires nature calls at night too. I just have Crocs classics, very light and feel good..

Keep asking questions, there are no stupid questions.

Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.

[Bob Shuff]

Thanks David,

My experience at altitude or cold/damp is that I’ll wear the fleece for moderate hiking in cold-damp weather, and definitely in cool/wet camps when not active, when exiting the tent for nature calls or to pack up in the AM. I wasn’t sure my R1-like fleece would be warm enough, even with the shirt under and the rain jacket over the top.  Do you find you are not standing or sitting around in camp much?

If it’s dry, I usually would use my puffy instead in camp.  Puffy goes in with my sleeping quilt and clothes.  The fleece goes in the top of my pack, along with the rain jacket so I can get to them for longer breaks or if weather moves in.  What I’m hearing is that I don’t need both a fleece and my down puffy anorak.  Matthew King has another thread about clothing for the Sierra in summer and many are suggesting the same.  Old assumptions die hard.

I found a Patagonia Nano Air jacket at REI’s outlet site, and with the 20% off coupon it seems like a value and versatile piece.  This would give me a full zip and probably be warmer than the thin fleece, at a similar weight.  I’ll bet it would be too warm for most hiking at Philmont, but probably better than the fleece for long breaks or in camp.  I would then leave the camp puffy behind.

As for sleep clothes, I typically use separate wool shirt and longjohns.  They are minimal weight, and should stay clean longer because they are all-but dedicated for use in the tent.  That keeps my sleeping quilt clean longer as well.  I heard the Philmont Rangers strongly encouraged separate sleeping clothes.  Is this an area you have deviated from the guidelines?  Do you wash or air-out your shirt/shorts every day, so carry 2 sets?

 

 

[Bruce Tolley]

I think the main advantage of a Polartec 100 or Patagonia r1 fleece is that is maintains its ability to insulate when you are hiking with your pack on when the temperatures are in the 20s or below. This will not be the case at Philmont. As David states you can always where everything including your shell even to bed.  Our crew followed Philmont’s dedicated sleepware protocol. I used my puffy to augment by sleeping systems but put the puffy on after dinner. I did bring two silkweight base layers, one wool and one syn, and one LS sunshirt treated with permithryn. But I never felt a need to wear all three of those layers and the same time for our late summer trek.

In the end, I think it is really a case how many “just in case layers” do you want to bring.

[Tim P]

My name is Tim and I overthink my gear.  Admitting it is the first step, right?

I cannot seem to find good quality rain pants for my son.  I don’t feel like buying $100-200 rain pants for a 14-year old.  Any thoughts?

I was thinking of taking a third pair of socks and third pair underwear.  Overkill?

 

[Bob Shuff]

I purchased a rain kilt from Dutch ($30), but no way I could get my son to wear it.  Frogg Toggs comes to mind.  I hear the rangers try to steer people clear of using their rain jackets due to poor durability, but you can buy a whole set often at Walmart for $15-20.  The pants should survive one trek, or can be duct taped.  My son will probably bring these, but is unlikely to wear them except for the service project.

I’m bringing 2 sets of hiking socks and one set of sleeping socks.  I don’t think that’s overkill.  I don’t wear sock liners, and the hiking socks are 1/4 crew on the lighter side.  The sleeping socks are thicker and less dense – and very comfy.

[David Y]

Philmont urges everyone to sleep in clothing that does not have any food odor. This means clothing that you have not had any food in the pockets or have eaten or cooked in since last laundered.

I only carry two sets of hiking clothes, two nylon hiking shorts, two polyester T-shits and two sets of socks, hiking and liners. When I go to bed I change out of the day’s dirty and sweaty hiking clothes and into clean ones. The next morning I am dressed for the trail except for my boots and socks.

This means I have to launder my clothes every other day or so in camp. But I would rather do that and have clean clothes (relative term) every day and not carry the extra weight. Since none of it is cotton it all washes easily and dries quickly in 30% to 40% humidity. I simply use a two-gallon plastic bag, some cold surface water and Campsuds and depose of the dirty water in the Camp Sump.

[David Y]

Tim,

REI Outlet has several name brand rain pants from $45 to $100.

[Steven McDowell]

I am agreement with want Bob Duff said.

Our troop is based on So CAL, and my son and I have gone to Philmont a couple of times. Regardless of the conditions he never put on rain pants and just puts on the legging from his Scout Pants when needed, for example, the service project. For him and similar type Scouts, the rain pants from the $20 DriDucks has done the trick. On the jacket, most have a decent waterproof Jacket already that is under 16 oz, if they don’t bring the jacket also.

I also steer families away from the recommended second set of pants. If they worry, worry about the cold and not having an extra pair of pants, I suggest they bring a cheap pair of 100% Poly fleece pants.

They are one my luxury items on all my trips, including 50+ milers. I wear them over my shorts in the morning until we take off on the trail, on cold nights, and when not in Philmont as part of my sleep layering system. My current ones, are the $7 Fruit of the Loops at WalMart that I used for 2 treks where temps when to the low 50s.

On Socks, I don’t get liners. Just an extra layer or rubbing in my opinion.

Many of our families have pretty good, pretty light, 100% poly hoody jackets from soccer etc. I found them to be a great option for keeping the mosquitos off the back of their neck, having somewhere to keep their hands warm before heading out and keeping their heads warm and it is something they will wear when it gets cold.

As to other gear, I tell our families. Take advantage of want you have at home. If you are uncertain about the garment wash it and run it through the spin dryer twice. If it is heavy it stays at home. If it doesn’t air dry in 5 minutes to a state you would be willing to put it on it stays.  Surpisely this gets rid of a lot of shirts and socks parents don’t realize has a high cotton or have a high absorption content.

Beyond Clothing to keep cost down, and lightweight

I cut the cheap store shammies in half for towels.

Use old tyvek type mailing envelopes for carrying ground sheets and tent poles

For Bowls, I bring Yogurt containers (which the 8oz and 4oz fuel containers fit inside) for each Scout. They are light weight and you can make a scout or two responsible for cleaning and carrying after each meal.

 

 

[David Y]

Hiking socks are made to cushion and pad impact points of your foot and wick moisture away.

Liner socks are not just a second pair of socks. Their purpose is to help prevent blisters. Socks manufactured as liners are made of fibers designed to cling to your skin but move (slip and slide) within the hiking socks so that the blister causing friction will occur between socks rather than on your skin.

[Bob Shuff]

nice tips Steven.  I hadn’t heard the dryer test.  That great for families that don’t have dedicated backpacking gear they know is quick drying.

Socks, like boots are a HYOH item in my book.  I won’t tell anyone to use or not use liner socks on our crew.  Just figure it out before we go.  I’m using Altra Timp Trail runners with lightweight Darn Tough socks.  My son was set with Keen Targhee WP boots, but they just didn’t work, and we found that out on the shake down hikes.  We just got him some Merrill Moab 2 vent low tops at REI.  I’m OK with shoes as long as he’s using trekking poles.

He picked out some Smartwool socks, but probably no way he would wear liners.  We’re lucky he doesn’t put them on heel-up backwards.  Fit, of course, is key.

[David Y]

Steven,

I like your method of testing and deciding which fabrics or clothing are suitable for backpacking or Philmont.

[Author]

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