PCT UL dreamin' 2017

[Haiku]

Hey guys,

Love some feedback on upcoming PCT list.  I have a job with paid room/board right now so am updating my kit from my AT thru (which was 8.5-9lbs base depending on when).  I am hoping to drop to around 7, probably a bit over.

This is pretty much it: https://lighterpack.com/r/9ss8a4

I still don’t know what umbrella or baselayers to get.  As a woman it’s been a pain to find merino (my preference) that is long enough (I need 32-33″ inseam).  And the patagonia capilene I had last year fits so weird (think: size model is a pregnant kangaroo).  It was $3 at goodwill though so definitely a good value, haha.  Also- do I need wind pants or rain pants?  I’m thinking I can get away with wind pants with the umbrella.  Any tips on modding say a Euroschirm by removing/sanding down the handle?  What is the best way to go for desert, do I need a LS shirt there if I’m hiking with an umbrella?  Maybe not, right? Then I should just get some sort of LS for at night/higher elevations?

Thanks, all.

[Jonathon Self]

I have never been on the PCT, but given knowledge of what others have done on the PCT, I think it’s safe to assume that you probably do not need rain pants. A lot of people just run wind pants/shorts (and thermals, if desired).

That’s all I got since I’ve never been on the PCT. Sorry! :) However, I will say that for very little extra weight you could simply take a Hexamid for the sake of simplicity. But if you like the modularity, then ignore my comment (or if you simply already own the gear on the list)!

Edit: One quick thought. Are you going to be able to fit a bear can with your gear into a Zero?

[Haiku]

For me it’s very important to be able to have modular setup with shelter so I can cowboy camp as much as possible.  I really loved the few times I did that on AT.  Hence no mid-tents, or tents at all.  I will carry bug net though for those times I need protection and probably at the beginning when I am more of a wuss about some critter crawling in and freaking me out (though unlikely that will happen).

It looks like I should be ok with the zero, according to Zpacks’ PCT page Joe used a 30 L pack.  I tended to have extra space in mine and my gear will be less than last year (both in weight and volume I believe) so I think I’ll be ok.  The carries I did on the AT were actually pretty similar to the PCT, I did longer amounts compared to a lot of hikers bc I was shipping everything.

It probably means I’ll have to go with a resupply before getting to VVR though, and use one of the smaller containers, and strap some stuff outside the pack.  I still haven’t decided on canister yet though heavily leaning towards a rental.  I also am still working on my food list- changing a few things up this time around, also I want to prioritize more no-cook things for desert (since water is precious- and heavy!) and more of the cooked things in Sierra (takes up less pack space, water more easily available, I like hot stuff to eat after big climbs and colder temps).

[Eli Zabielski]

This is a pretty similar list to what I had thru hiking in 2015 and what I intend to use again in 2017. You pretty much nailed a lot of the classic UL PCT gear choices. Not sure if you care but you can mark your hiking clothes as worn to separate them from your base weight.

You will have to take great care of where you set up camp to protect your inflatable sleeping pad with only a polycro sheet. But I did meet a couple people that used that combo and didn’t have any punctures.

You won’t need rain pants for most of the trail, if at all. I would only consider them if you were going to be in Washington for most of September. Wind pants were my only additional bottom layer over running shorts except for some wool bottoms I had in the Sierra. I only had one full day of rain (in Washington). Otherwise I had an occasional afternoon rainstorm or thunderstorm. I went a few weeks from Norcal to northern Oregon without any rain.

Not sure how much you’ve used the Montbell windshirt. On my skin, it feels (and looks) I’m wearing a grocery bag. The way it sticks to my skin when my arms are grimy is really irritating and gross feeling to peel away. I am going to use a Houdini for a bit more comfort. I am going to experiment with the Montbell Travel umbrella which is a lot lighter but also a lot smaller in diameter than the comparatively wide Euroschrim (Chrome Dome).

You might already know this but alcohol stoves may be banned in many areas that you go through.

I find the Petzl e+Lite to be basically useless for night hiking, which is somewhat common for the first several hundred miles of the PCT. Depending on how much night hiking you intend to do (or are forced to do by hot weather), you might want a different headlamp starting out.

You can make up for it by ditching the bug net till the Sierras. I never had bugs be a problem in Socal and I cowboy camped 100% of the time. I also section hiked the first 500 miles in 2014 and I also cowboy camped every night then.

This is my 2017 list: https://lighterpack.com/r/4enk7y

[John Rowan]

I did the first 1100 in 2015 before getting knocked off with a herniated disc, and I’d agree for the most part on rain pants not being a critical item, but I was glad for my rain kilt a few times. While I never really felt like there was a serious comfort/safety issue with not having leg protection (during the times when I didn’t bother with the kilt for whatever reason- honestly I can’t remember why), I did definitely get a good bit of chafing from my legs being soaked. For me, it was a worthwhile addition for less than 3oz, and I think it’s a much more useful piece of gear for an environment like the PCT than full-on rain pants are (plus, they’re easier to put on by a long shot and can be multi-purposed a bit.)

[Haiku]

Actually I’ve solved a dilemma here, I found these really nice looking wind pants by As Tucas.  Made to order so they will have a long enough inseam!

http://www.astucas.com/en/products/millaris-pants

I think probably I will just invest in these to start with, and then if needed use either the patagonia $3 Cap 4 Kangaroo pants I already have underneath, or just get something else.  I upgraded my quilt so hopefully that will be good enough, at least for a couple hundred miles.

[Lester Moore]

Dawn – that 10F quilt should be nice and cozy on the PCT. the Sea to Summit bug net is an excellent bug shelter under a shaped tarp. However, knit and fleece clothing and hats tend to grab and cling to the netting when sitting up or moving around under it. On the JMT I got in the habit of wearing a wind shirt to bed with the hood up. It glided smoothly under the bug net, added noticeable warmth while sleeping, and seemed to keep my quilt from becoming smelly. Something to consider.

If you hike through WA in September, you might consider adding a light bivy sack, a light fleece pullover (8 oz), light rain pants (3.7oz DriDucks), a down or APEX balaclava (2.1 oz from EE), and/or a 1/8 inch thick torso length foam pad (2 oz Thinlight from GG). It can get really cold, wet and humid in WA some Falls. An added pound of combined quilt protection, sleep pad insulation and synthetic clothing may be worth the extra weight if pushing later into September in the N Cascades.

Also, you might consider one longer or wider stake for the front guyline on your tarp – that front line holds a lot of tension.

[rick .]

I will just tell you what clothing I had in lieu of making a recommendation for what you might like

• hiking shorts with liner
• hiking tee
• light merino LS top 150 wt.
• sleep pants (cap 2 then some fleece ones up north)
• hiking pants til KM then montane dt goretex pants (7oz)
• wind shirt (rab cirrus 4.8oz)
• puffy coat (rab microlight 12.5oz)
• fleece lined beanie
• OR rainshell gloves + synth liners in KM
• Umbrella Liteflex 7.3oz

  I bought a fleece in White Pass and would have wanted it a week or two sooner.  Fleece + windshirt is awesome in that high 30s low 40s rainy day (it mists for 5 days straight with a shower morning/evening).  This combo still breathes and while not perfectly waterproof the windshirt dried as I walked pushing moisture out.  The sleeves stayed wet but torso stayed dry.  Umbrella or poncho (gatewood cape ftw) when it really came down.

  I would say if you are prioritizing weight over comfort, you could skip the pants outer layer til the sierras (see below about sun).  Shell pants added warmth in evenings and were worn for a week at a time up north.  10k feet is pretty chilly, and I hiked in those pants whenever the sun wasn’t out.  Oregon and especially Washington the pants were hiked in a lot.

  In the desert, I got in a pattern of 2 days with the ls top, 1 day in a tee, repeat.  Same with the pants/shorts.  I gave my skin a break from the sun then hiked less covered a day or two.  It becomes a challenge to keep from burning being outside 24/7.  The umbrella works excellently, but you will tire of using it and want to have other cover.  Sometimes its windy and you can’t use it.  I found a way to rig it to my pack but I just carried it mostly so I could point it at the sun and maximize coverage (PCT loves switchbacks).  My tops of hands and tops of ears charred, cracked and peeled no matter how much sunscreen I used, the rest of my body seemed to darken and be ok.  I’m dark and usually do well with sun.  If you’re pale it can get serious.

  There were times when I could have gotten away with sending forward some of the above items, but I never did.  Add a few wet weather items in KM and maybe a bit more up north.  I think I used my puffy at least a few days in each resupply, and for a pillow if not.  Wind shirt was the star of the hike, most days that was either on me or close by for a break.

  I would be surprised if you don’t end up sending yourself more insulating clothes at some point, with one 4oz jacket on the list.  Overall your list is very tight.

  I required a bigger pack (HMG 3400) to carry the 20-30 miles water carries and 7-10 days of food +bear can that you didn’t experience on the AT, but if you’re really moving (30+mpd) those numbers come down.

[Haiku]

Hey Rick and Lester-

Awesome feedback.  I am feeling better and better about choice to have this spiffy windpants (not sure if you checked, they are reasonably rain resistant) and then just add baselayer for Sierras, and maybe WA.

I’m still not sure how long everything will be, I saw some estimate of AT vs PCT times (you multiply avg mpd by 1.4)- if that’s true, I should be looking at an avg of 22 mpd. I want to take more zeroes this time around though so it all depends on my start date (anywhere from May 3 to say, May 10) and how fast I move.  So that will determine clothing for WA I guess.

Definitely thanks for the windshirt @ night tip.  Never would have thought of that.  I’ve never used a windshirt before but I definitely liked my fleece hoodie up in NH and ME on peaks.  I guess I keep this in mind…see what’s out there for sales (my work laundry shredded last year’s fleece unfortunately :(

My previous experience @ altitude (let’s say 2500-5400 m at the very top) I ended up just putting on and taking off layers all day, it just seemed like there was no way around it.  I guess I’m a reptile or something.  I burned but not too bad.  I just pull my hair over my ears on bad days and it seems to prevent the worst of it.  Actually most of that was without a hat (they broke or I forgot or it got lost), sunscreen, or umbrella so I think with what I’ll bring I should be pretty ok.

Down jacket- isn’t the Rab 750 fill?  if 5oz then 750×5= 3750.  Goosefeet has 4oz of 950 fill= 3800.  But at half the weight (7 oz vs 15 oz, which is what I saw for hooded Rab).  For me I’ll pay the extra $50 and support cottage industry and halve the weight (also, since I don’t have things like an apartment, car, etc in real life- I work on a ship- I can put $ towards stuff like this).  Not sure if I was missing something why you thought it wasn’t enough?

I’ve roughly planned out resupplies (I like to eat healthy with some dietary needs, so I dehydrated myself, the worst should be a 7 day carry in the Sierras, otherwise mostly 4-5 days.  I had no problem doing that in my pack last summer so I’ll just look for appropriate canister.  The weight of the canister should be ok I think since I’ve dropped about 1.5-2lbs from my base weight last summer.

I’ve carried 4L of water on occasion in the Zpacks as well.  Not an amazing carry but not terrible?  I tend not to need crazy amounts of water anyway and also do well “camel-ing up”.  I took some practice hikes in southern AZ in August/September this year (stupidly, usually in mid-day also).  Still not major problems in 100F+ heat and usually only 1L of water so I am not excessively worried with that, and I’m hoping to also avoid the worst heat (which would make me need more water) with a siesta.  Actually I am super looking forward to desert hiking!  As I mentioned also I usually had extra space in the backpack, and I anticipate a bit more with the lower weight this year.

 

[John Rowan]

As far as the water goes (since you mention doing 4L in the ZPacks and not loving it), it’s worth at least noting that Section F has been particularly dry the last couple of years, with the real centerpiece being a possible 42 miles between Landers Camp (608) and Walker Pass (650), which might make for an unpleasant carry. (That said, I did it with 8-9L or so in a pack that didn’t have a functional hipbelt at the time, and it sucked a lot less than I had been expecting for that stretch.) That could well change if the drought situation improves this year, but others are far better qualified than I am to interpret the current weather patterns.

it really depends on what Willow Spring and/or Yellow Jacket Spring look like, since they’ve more or less been dry for at least the past two years to the best of my knowledge. To be fair, there are two main cache areas in that stretch, and it appears that at least one of them was well-maintained maintained in 2016, based on a quick reading of the water report (the other seems to have stopped being regularly maintained), but I’d be a little hesitant to rely on them. I don’t mean that from some kind of cranky “purist” perspective- when I hiked in 2015, we had a storm knock out one of the access roads for a bit and the cache couldn’t be restocked. (Source: was there for the storm/saw the road damage and saw the subsequent Facebook post from Devilfish warning that he couldn’t restock.)

All that said, if you’re good with carrying 20 miles worth of water in the Zpacks, you’ll be good for the vast majority of the SoCal section if you can live with those 4L carries, and you can definitely break that up a bit if you’re less conservative about the sources you’re going to count on. It might be worth playing around with the bigger water carries to get an idea of what the upper bound feels like in that pack. Those extremes really only come into play for a very short portion of the hike, though, since a 30-mile carry turns into a 20-mile carry after a few hours, and so on.

[rick .]

Dawn,

You’re starting with a solid mindset and mine is just another view to consider, under 10 and under 7 are certainly done and doable.  I was cold often with what I had, its something that you get used to and deal with, but when home my instinct is to want others to be aware of that.

Ditto what John said about water- I was probably too precious about water, not wanting to run out or rely on caches, ever.  I rarely arrived thirsty or tanked up though.  My math was 1L = 5mi + 1-2L for camp, a bit less depending on heat.  I definitely still took 6-8L a dozen times.  Think about the 20+ mile carry that you get to at 3pm.  Do you wait, do you have enough capacity for 20 miles plus camping?  Is that source good, since the last report was 3 weeks ago.  4 may do it for you, many people took more often.  It is smart to treat the caches as dry, and maybe take a liter only if you’re running low.

On the jacket, I saw 4oz and took that as total.  My rab was from gearswap so I don’t know what fill, and has a total weight of 12.5oz with a hood.  What you have may be enough, I was reacting to seeing one 4oz insulating piece.

172 total days, 11 zeros ( 5 were for High Sierra Music Festival!) 29 near-0’s (under 10? I forget) 161 days hiked 16.5mi average on days hiked.  My fav resupply was 10×10 in (or whatever I had left) – stock up, and go back out for a few miles.  Lots of people spend a surprising amount of time in town (hyoh), I decided to prioritize going back out.  Having done a big hike you will probably start faster, I didn’t get up to 20’s right away then that became my target (30s and a few 40s in Oregon), slowed down in the sierras.  If you’re looking to try for a big day 50mi into Timberline is a good push, most of it is pristine graded monotonous pine forest worthy of racking up a big personal best.

Siesta was my favorite way to tackle the longer carries, though not always the way it happened.  Arrive at water in early afternoon, filter and cook dinner as lunch in the (made) shade.  Shade is listed as an amenity on the maps, because you have none between in some spots.  Tank up and hike til dark, its nice to do 2x 10mi this way without getting too much sun.

I realized at some point that it was worth it to tank up in the afternoon and be ready to camp at a secluded view spot, instead of plop down with 5 tents wherever the water was for that day.  The initial strategy is water-to-water since its a big deal, but if you relax that a bit there’s epic spots walked by every day.  Up north, look for the little deer trails to camp sites just off the path but out of view.

Drakesbad resort is worth the stop, shower, epic dinner and an evening in their hotspring pool.  They seemed to want to stay not the main destination of the area, with a few hikers stopping each day.

[Haiku]

Right on.  Your numbers look pretty typical for water.  I found that when I drink 1L/5 miles I generally pee like a mofo.  Even when I started adding in a lot more electrolytes.  I just find that I really don’t need as much water as average person, also whenever possible I camp at/near water sources (obviously this will be harder on the PCT).

Yeah the total for jacket is in the far right, the 4oz is how much of the down there is inside the jacket.  Still haven’t had it made yet but I’m guessing around 6-7 oz total based on similar jackets’ weights that are a larger size than mine will be.

I am thinking then something like LS merino or cap under the tachyon for altitude/colder hiking is going to be the way to go here.

Love your hotsprings suggestion!  Big fan here.  I’ve been to Deep Creek previously and looking forward to a return there.  Probably going to spring (haha, get it?) for a night in Muir Ranch if that’s available or at least jump in the springs across the way.  If you are a spings afficianado you MUST go to Hokkaido at some point in your life.  Great hikes, great food, great hot springs!

[Author]

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