Patagonia's Cap 4 Hoodie vs Merino Hoodies

[Bradley Danyluk]

If concerned about the durability of merino, consider the merino/synth blends out there. Patagonia’s own merino line is actually a blend with Capilene. Icebreaker has started blending most of their line with poly as well. Arc’teryx and a few others are using a merino strand wrapped around a thin nylon core, which seems be better-reviewed than the poly blends for durability. (Check out their Satoro for a good example). I’ve scoured the net wide for reviews on just about all these products, trying to come to some conclusion, although nothing seems to work miracles: the blend fabrics are predictably somewhat more durable than pure merino, depending on weaves and other quality factors, yet don’t reach the durability of pure synthetics. They do seem to hold up well in the stink department, apparently.

The best-reviewed blends for durability that I’ve come across have all been nylon core products. Icebreaker has a really interesting fabric called Cool Lite that also blends Tencel with nylon and merino, and seems to have the best durability of all other blends, but they only make it in light weights for “summer” use – they do have a hoody though!

The most interesting to me as a Cap4 replacement was the Patagonia Merino Air Hoody, a 50/50 merino/Capilene blend of heat-exploded-fibers for more loft-per-oz. It’s currently on close-out (great if you’re an uncommon size, but Mediums are sold out of this production run unfortunately).

[chris smead]

+1 to synth/merino hybrids.

For what it’s worth, I’ve found the smartwool NTS series to be much more durable than the Patagonia or ibex stuff.  Im guessing they use more nylon or polyester or whatever.

The merino air stuff seems interesting, but the lack of a neck zipper to dump heat always deterred me.

[Bradley Danyluk]

The NTS series actually seems to be 100% merino, not a blend. Interesting you’ve found it more durable. Perhaps you’ve got a heavier weight fabric (250?) than your comparison with the other brands?

[chris smead]

Smartwool:  100%?  Wow!!  I just confirmed on the Smartwool site.  I never would have guessed.    What the heck do they feed those sheep?  For the last year I’ve been wearing NTS 150 shirts 2-3 days a week.  I abused the heck out of one on the JMT this year, and it still looks brand new.  I can’t make any sense of it…but I’m not complaining. :)  Unfortunately they only make a women’s hoody.  Hopefully a mens version comes soon.

Patagonia: The Daily merino series is 4.1-oz (140-g) 52% chlorine-free merino wool/48% recycled polyester according to the website.  Should be stronger according to everything I know.  Unfortunately the 3 shirts I owned looked very worn after 3-4 washes.  A brand new shirt had the shoulders wear thin on the first backpacking trip.  They also felt more soggy to me after sweating in them.  Luckily these were an REI dividend purchase so I wasn’t too upset.

Ibex:  tshirts felt scratchy to me.  But I love the Indi hoodies, indi zip, and the Shak zip up.  They seem to look fine after many washes, However on 2 occasions I’ve torn holes in the sleeves near the thumb loops just from minor sierra granite abrasion.

IO Merino: to me smelled weird, and curled up funny on the bottom hem.  So not my favorite.

Icebreaker:  I only own 2 icebreaker pieces.  A t shirt that I think is 150 weight.  Seems great, except that its grey and for some reason it perfectly highlights and contrasts armpit sweat.  The Icebreaker heavyweight hoody I have is great for around town.  But too heavy and slow drying for backpacking stuff.

[kevperro .]

I just bought the Terramar Hoodie, which I think is a microgrid fleece most like the R1.    I was going to get Cap 4 but couldn’t find a full-zip version and bought the Terramar on a whim.

I don’t have it yet but for me this is a winter/shoulder season layer for when it is cold and wet.    Quick drying is important and something that has maximum comfort range.

I’m hoping it is serviceable and will function as a Cap 4 type layer.

[kevperro .]

Update on my post of the Terramar hoody for those of you who care.

It is an epic fail as a replacement for the Capaline 4 or Thermal Weight as Patagonia is calling them now.   Weight is 14-ounces for the size large and it fits fairly tight on my stocky short frame.   I wear a large in all the Patagonia flavors.

It has value as a skiing layer (lift served – not backcountry) and other activities with intermittent exertion levels.   The hood and hand warmer pockets are excellent and being full zip I can open it up and vent easily.    I work outside in the winter with frequent changing situations where I go in mechanical rooms from hot to cold so I’ll probably use it for work so it isn’t a complete loss ($50).    I don’t own an R1 layer but was looking at them and comparing at REI the other day and I’d say the fabric is almost identical but the Terramar peice is doubled over at the pockets, each hem, and the hood is bomber which is all responsible for the extra weight.   I’m wearing it right now in conditions where I’d overheat with thermals and it is comfortable in wide ranges of temp.   I see the attraction but it is far too warm for virtually any condition I’d backpack with and it is much heavier than my puffy for camp (which is much warmer).

So back to the search.   I’ll probably buy an MEC T3 next.

[James holden]

they reduced the fabric weight of the T3 so its more or less between the cap4 and R1 …

also the zip is VERY deep on it … which is great for ventilation

its also quite durable … ive worn it rock climbing for years … with actual hands/arms/fist jams (not just face climbing)

when yr sleeves eventually get holes in em … just snip em off and use em as arm warmers

keep the body and shoulders to use as a shirt/vest … great for higher exertion in the snow/rain (sleeves take forever to dry)

my T3s (of the older heavier type) are about a decade old and i wear up indoors daily and outdoors when its cold

heavier grid fleece will last for many years … while a sale is nice theres no point in getting something that doesnt really fit/cant return to save a few bucks

of course for those cheap skates a 100 wt fleece will do the same job at a lower cost and works just fine for 99% of the things folks do here … just make sure it fits

;)

[Eric Osburn]

What’s the fit like on that MEC T3? In the pictures on their website it looks very tight through the torso and the arms look very long, which is pretty much the opposite of what I need. I’m fairly large through the chest, shoulders and lats but have short arms… pretty much the opposite build of most runners/distance athletes.

I’d really like to pickup a garment in the cap 4 to R1 range for use in alpine areas where the temps can drop quite a bit. Having a breathable piece of insulation that dries fairly quickly would be nice.

[chris smead]

The MEC T3 fit is near identical to the cap4 hoody.  I’m 5-9 and 165 and a medium is perfect.  Form fitting, but not too tight.  I’m wearing it in most of my little JMT video thingy if that gives you an idea.  https://youtu.be/Masta9yxAUE.  It’s the red hoody thing.

Im a huge fan of T3’s.  I own 2.  They’re an ounce lighter than my cap4 hoody, and just as warm and versatile.  I figured out that Patagonia doubled the powerdry HE fabric on the hood and the shoulders.  Hence the extra ounce.  But for my purpose, that provides no value.  My T3 gives me exactly what I need and nothing more.  If my head needs more insulation, I have a fleece beanie and down hood for that.

That said, in winter I use an R1 instead.  I chill easily because I’m a wuss.  ;)

[Eric Osburn]

Thanks for the info. I may have to pop over to a local store and try on the cap4 hoody and if it fits take a chance on the MEC T3, it sounds like what I’m looking for.

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