MYOG Wind Pants, Calendared (Shiny) Side In or Out?

[Scott B]

I am planning to make Argon 90 wind pants and am trying to decide whether the shiny calendared side should be on the inside or outside.

I understand and it makes sense for the shiny side of material to be in for things like down quilts, but it seems less clear for wind pants and shirts/jackets.  It seems like the matte side would be more comfortable against the skin, but that would put the calendared side on  the outside and perhaps making it more vulnerable to abrasion, etc.?  The DWR finish is likely on the matte side only I would assume, making the matte side on the outside a better option for water resistance?

I’m leaning towards having the calendared side on the inside, but was hoping to get input from others’ experiences on here.  Thanks!

[Shmedlap]

Interesting idea. I just went through the same thought process and made an Argon 90 hoody and pants shiny side in. I don’t think it affects water resistance but I’d be interested to find how you go, should you go that route. I really just went that way for the look. The matte finish is nice to look at.

[Michael B]

I thought the shiny side was the side subjected to hot rollers. I personally do not think one side feels different than the other, at least not the hyper D I’ve felt. I also don’t think it matters to the DWR, as that is soaked into the fibers. I’m curious to see what your thoughts are after you decide. Me, personally? I think the shiny side is ugly, like a trash bag. So the shiny side will NEVER make an appearance on anything I make.

[John E]

I have a pair of pants with the shiny side out. No negatives except the appearance is that of vinyl.  I’ve put them on inside out accidentally and didn’t notice a difference in feel. When these wear out I will make another pair with the shiny side in.  I will say I wear them all the time and am blown away they haven’t ripped bushwhacking: very durable.

[SIMULACRA]

I had the same conversation with Dutch when I purchased Argon from him. The shiny side generally speaking goes in. It is more aesthetically pleasing to have the matte side out. But it makes no performance difference one way to the next. The shiny side is the side that is hot rolled. The DWR coating per Dutch is on both sides of the fabric. I chose shiny side out for my sleeping bag liner because the matte side is much better feeling next to the skin. Also my reasoning was that it would have marginally better abrasion resistance. (perhaps)

[Scott B]

Thanks for everyone’s responses so far.

Good info on the DWR being on both sides.  I wonder if it would wear off faster on the matte or shiny side.  100% I would have the shiny side out if I were using it to make a sleeping bag liner as the calendared side would be facing the down quilt or bag.

The matte side of the Argon 90 seems to feel better against the skin and likely easier to slide on and off if my legs were wet/sweaty.  Living in the south, I would use wind pants as much if not more for protection from bugs and underbrush as wind.

I did a little research on popular wind pants and it looks to me that EE Copperfield wind pants have the shiny side out (see photo link below), and I am fairly sure they use the same calendared fabrics they use on their quilts (though they do not use Argon 90 specifically).

View post on imgur.com

 

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I own copperfield windpants and jacket and the shiny side is out on both.

[Michael B]

Can anyone comment about personal experience about one side being “clammier” than the other? My impression is that the calendaring process makes the fabric feel clammy regardless of sides, which is why I’ve used uncalendared fabric for the liners of my Apex quilts so far. The membrane taffeta I am using for my new down quilt will be getting the matte side facing my skin, but I never plan to sleep in the quilt without my layers on (tights and shirt). The calendaring will (IMO) limit airflow to the skin regardless of which side the fabric is facing the skin, at least that is my expectation, but I am genuinely curious if anyone has tried wearing their wind pant/shirt both ways and noticed a difference? Maybe Diane could volunteer to do an experiment with her EE clothes?

[Scott B]

I would not think there’s a considerable difference in clamminess based on the side, but I can’t say for sure.  To me the bigger difference would be the more plastic-bag-like tackiness and texture of the fabric on the calendared/shiny side of Argon 90 and other similar fabrics.

[Michael B]

I was thinking that was the same thing/included with the clamminess. Can you confirm it is in fact more sticky on one side? With the membrane taffeta, that has not been my experience in handling it. It has felt equally sticky on both sides. But, then again, I am not all sweaty while I am touching it (still putting my quilt together.

[Scott B]

Michael it is.  I have the material right here.  That’s why I said that.  That’s why I also said “The matte side of the Argon 90 seems to feel better against the skin and likely easier to slide on and off if my legs were wet/sweaty.”

[Scott B]

Michael – This is not membrane taffeta but Argon 90 from Dutchware.  It could be different for membrane taffeta.

[Michael B]

Likely. My take on it is that these types of fabric are not suitable for next to skin. That is of course my opinion, but the weight of the fabric and the relative “stickiness” just cause it to be a bit of a nuisance. Of course people are going to use it and say it is comfortable, it is all relative.

[SIMULACRA]

Since I was using it as a liner for my down bag and not anything with exertion, I can’t say so much about the clamminess. It did breath very well. No condensation build. I did however try it both ways and it was much easier to get in and out with the matte side next to my skin. Didn’t want to cling as much. Interesting to see that’s how EnlightenedEquipment does it also Scott

[Shmedlap]

Shiny side in feels fine. Argon 90 breathes well but when wet from rain it sticks to the bare skin. I could not wet my hoody nor pants out jogging at 8C with a small rucksack just over an UL Capilene tshirt top and shorts. It was ever so slightly damp inside but not bothersome enough to take off the hoody or pants. It did not cling to my bare arms or legs. I didn’t wear both pants and hoody at the same time- I tested them on separate occasions. Another time wore my Hoody over a tshirt in mild weather, but pouring rain and wind. Sticks to skin as you’d expect. No big deal though. If you are worried perhaps get a piece, wet your skin a bit and see which side you prefer? Make one hoody, if you don’t like it make another? You’ll use them. Argon is very cheap -then you have two colours. It’s good stuff.

[Shmedlap]

Nm

[Tuukka U]

I don’t know about Argon but all the UL fabrics I’ve used had the DWR only on the matte side. Try dropping a few drops of water on each side. The difference will be obvious if the DWR is only on one side.

[SIMULACRA]

For sure Tuukka. I’m going off what Dutch, of Dutchware, told me after I bought the Argon from him. That test would be a simple way to find out

[Scott B]

I also confirmed from Dutchware that the DWR is on both sides for Argon 90 and there’s no apparent difference in abrasion resistance on each side.  DWR also appears to be on both sides when running water over it.

In summary, I see it this way.

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Pros of Matte Out</span>

– More aesthetically pleasing to most humans.  Opinion of other mammals in the wild is currently unknown.

– Matte out is more common (due to it being done on down jackets and quilts/bags, but that is so the calendared side faces the down, which is N/A for wind pants), so possibly more predictable results on how long DWR retention on matte outer layer (no info I know of comparing DWR retention between matte and calendared side).

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Pros of Shiny Out</span>

– More comfortable against the skin in general, though it seems like the relatively lower comfort of shiny side in could be less noticeable when not in warm and/or humid conditions.

– Works better as sleep wear (think as a substitute for quilt liner) due to its comfort against the skin.

– Possibly less puncture resistant, though equally as abrasion resistant as matte side

– As DWR wears off, it seems intuitively that any water would roll off off a smoothed calendared surface more easily than an uncalendared one.

With that said, and since I don’t plan to wear them to look good in town and may use them in some situations solely as sleeping pants, I am now probably going to do the calendared side out.  Since calendaring is intended to prevent down from penetrating/getting stuck on the fabric, I’m thinking it would also help keep small thorns, etc. from getting through/snagging during less-maintained trail hiking and bushwhacking.

I’ll let you how it goes!

[Author]

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