Mosquito Beater?

[AK Granola]

Permethrin is used for getting rid of head lice, and has been for a long time, so I think it’s relatively safe. With Deet – don’t use the 100% stuff, that’s nasty! I use 30-40% and it doesn’t wreck plastics at that level. Well tested.

[Bill Budney]

Yes, but treating head lice is short-term — you use it then you’re done. Hiking clothes are next to my skin, every day, forever. I’m not saying that you are wrong, just that nobody really knows for sure what the long term effects will be. Maybe it’s fine. OTOH, I don’t find it necessary to have Permethrin next to my skin, beyond handling the clothing.

[David D]

Permethrin has been linked to an increased risk of Parkinson’s.

https://davidsuzuki.org/press/two-reports-sound-the-alarm-about-link-between-pesticide-exposure-and-prevalence-of-autism-and-parkinsons-disease/

https://ianrnews.unl.edu/gloves-may-help-prevent-parkinsons

https://beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/2009/09/occupational-use-of-2-4-d-permethrin-triple-the-risk-of-parkinsons-disease/

The reality is that in our use case, the level of risk is unknown but on the balance of probabilities is probably on the low side if properly applied.  I base this on the studies I’ve come across (and I looked) that seem to link heightened risk with wider scale and regular use like lawn and farm workers.

I use an N95 mask and cover all my skin when applying because these are low effort risk reducers.  I also dry it for days in the shed before using.  I once jumped in the car for a trip 1 day after applying and the smell gave me a headache.  I had to stop, change and put the treated clothes in a plastic bag for the rest of the drive.  Once in open air, I didn’t even notice it.

Permethrin is outlawed in Canada for private use.  There are huge approvals obstacles to getting approval to sell pre-treated clothes, though it’s not illegal.  I wrote InsectShield and they can’t ship up here.  Mark’s sells one treated shirt but its practically winter weight and suffocating for active use.  Its the only garment I know that made it through approvals.

The stuff’s not perfect.  In ’22 I hit the midge hatch right on the day in my first campsite and even with permethrin treatment, they climbed under my long shirt cuff and I had 25 bites just on one wrist.  I try not to completely soak my clothes through wet though, preferring to try and avoid it contacting my skin for long periods.

There’s always mosquito jackets but I find them suffocating for active use but great for static.

[Axel J]

I was in an area of the Sierra last year where the mosquito pressure was unrelenting from morning till dusk then they eased off. I used a small spray bottle of high percentage Deet and covered up head to toe but the annoyance factor was ever present. Deet on my sun mask was worthless in trying to keep them from buzzing my face even though they were unable to penetrate my sun mask. I thought just the smell of Deet on the mask would disperse them away from my face, it did not. What did work was when I mixed the Deet with my sunscreen then applied it. What a relief that was! Maybe that’s why some brands like Cutters is affective even though the Deet concentration isn’t that high. I think I also read somewhere that Deet is only affective when applied to skin. I certainly believe that to be true now.

[Jerry Adams]

I’ve read that applying DEET, then sunscreen is bad,  The sunscreen is absorbed into your skin.  If there’s DEET there, it will also be absorbed into your skin

Also, sunscreen should be applied liberally.  DEET can be applied sparingly, and just in a few spots – like neck and forehead, not near mouth, nose, eyes

[Jerry Adams]

I scanned over those David.  The first two didn’t mention permethrin.  The last one said they only looked at heavy permethrin users, like on farms, and said occasional use, like gardeners should also be studied.  The studies are observational which is often misleading

Even if there are no good studies, I think it makes sense to be careful.  I spray it on clothing, which is on the ground.  Watch where any spray goes and don’t breath that.  A little bit of spray gets on my hands, but I wash them off immediately.  Let them dry out for several days after.  Only a couple times each year.

Sometimes gloves can actually make things worse, if any liquid gets between your fingers and the gloves.

I don’t think an N95 mask would be much use.  You need a mask intended for chemicals.  Activated carbon.  A bench with controlled airflow away from you…

[Tim Mulholland]

As someone who used to perform environmental risk assessments for pesticide use environmental impact studies, there are great differences between using an insecticide for a few days like on a backpacking trip compared to being a farm worker who might be exposed for >200 days/year and for many years.

I looked at a some basic information on DEET, permethrin and Picaridin. There was one little piece of information that comes from experience more than knowledge that makes me want to shy away from using permethrin if I can, but it’s not some type of clear-cut piece of data.

As I’m beginning to understand these chemicals a bit better, I don’t really want to use permethrin since there are other choices and I certainly don’t want to rinse of a permethrin-soaked clothing item in a body of water. Permethrin is toxic to insects, whereas DEET and Picaridin work by confusing a mosquitos sensory organs so that they’re less likely to detect us.

So, I’ll still have DEET to consider but will be ordering some Picaridin and trying it out.

Thanks everyone!

[jscott]

I used to apply Permethrin to my sun shirt and nothing else. And yes, I would let it dry in the garage over several days before wearing it on a trip. Necessary? Who knows.

Jerry’s point about using sunscreen and deet at the same time makes sense. I haven’t performed tests. That would require a lab and a budget and a staff. And a desire.

Anyway, again, I go back to preferring mere clothing to protect me from biting bugs. That sun shade hat I linked to above looks…dorky. But I especially don’t want Deet on my face. the drape doesn’t require Permethrin of deet to be effective: it hangs loose and the material is impermeable to bug bites. I imagine one of the reasons folks wore a burnoose in the desert–and still  do, maybe–was to repel insects as well as sun.

[Todd T]

The sunscreen is absorbed into your skin. If there’s DEET there, it will also be absorbed into your skin

You’re saying DEET alone would not be absorbed?  Why wouldn’t it?

[David D]

Hi Jerry, the first 2 mention permethrin.  Agree about the 3rd, that’s what I mentioned as well.  Thanks for the n95 info, good to know!

[Jerry Adams]

Todd, what I have read is that the chemicals in sunscreen are absorbed into the skin more than DEET.

The way sunscreen works, is it’s absorbed into the upper skin layers and then the sunscreen chemicals absorb the UV photons so they don’t penetrate deeper into the skin

The way DEET works is it sits on the surface and the smell distracts the mosquitoes

[Jerry Adams]

Thanks for those posts David, good information

It’s hard to figure this all out.  No perfect data.  The same with a lot of other things available to us to worry about :)

[Jerry Adams]

Same here jscott – I prefer long sleeves and pants.  And wide brimmed hat.  Complete protection. No side effects.  No confusing scientific data to try to make sense of.

But my hands and bottom of face aren’t covered so sometimes I put sunscreen and DEET on them.

My sleeves are long and baggy which protects my hands mostly.

[Axel J]

I also cover head to toe when mosquitos are present  but even though her proboscis is unable to penetrate the fabric, that doesn’t prevent them from constantly trying, That can become extremely annoying, especially around the head. Given their numbers, they will find a way in.  Deet on clothing seems to have little effect. Deet on skin usually works. rubbing a high concentration of oily Deet solution on the face is effective but not comfortable, I think Deet with lotion is more comfortable, gives better coverage and seems to be just as effective. Using Deet with sunscreen was a onetime observation and it certainly did not diminish the effect of the Deet, so now I apply Deet/lotion mixture directly on the skin then cover completely up knowing the deet on clothing alone is not very affective.

Smoky campfires help too, but that’s not an option above 10,000 ft. Maybe a smoky cigar instead?

 

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