Let's assemble an awesomely ultralight 4 season, extreme weather shelter system!

[Michael F]

I have been toying with the idea of ultralight double walled tents. The inner tent would consist of dyneema cuben fiber, while being able to be used on it’s own as an ultralight 3-season shelter. While the outer tent would be made of a heavier duty sinylon/kerlon/polyester with it’s own free standing or semi freestanding supports, which would be designed specifically for extreme weather.

Origianlly I inteded to use heimplanet’s fly sheets and inflatable air supports for their “cave”, or “fistral” series tents. Which still remains an option, but I have moved onto some other ideas as well. (these are seriously cool though)

Lately my idea has been to contact zpacks help me customize the heleberg jannu. The jannu is near perfect for what I need. It is as far as I can tell the lightest 2 person extreme weather tent available. It weighs 7 pounds and  some odd ounces. I believe I can bring it down to around 5.5 lbs if zpacks will indeed build me a custom inner tent to replace the stock inner tent the jannu comes with.

The only thing I would be slightly unhappy with is that I would honestly prefer the jannu’s outer tent to be made from a 65+D silicone coated ripstop polyester, as I feel poly is a little better equiped to handle extreme winds since it doesn’t sag, or get weighed down with water like the jannus silicone coated kerlon is going to when it gets wet. However if it were made of such a material I would be lucky to get this thing down to it’s original 7+lb weight(probably way heavier), even after replacing the interior with cuben. So it seems like kerlon it will be!…(unless someone knows a EWC tent that uses poly they would like to show me)

btw helleberg uses 1200d kerlon on the jannu (STRONG STUFF!)

For anyone still unclear the idea is to protect my ultralight 3 season set up with an additional tent wall, to convert it into a 4 season extreme weather conditions set up. I am attempting to do this by combining pieces of various manufactuer’s shelter systems with as little physical customization as possible. For instance I would theoretically forgo any customization zpacks would do for me, if I knew of any 2 person cuben shelters with no-see-um mesh and a bathtub floor, that would fit under/inside of the jannu’s outer tent wall without any need to customize said cuben tent.

All ideas are welcome!

[Roger Caffin]

The idea of having a single tent which can be customised to minimum weight for all 4 seasons is a pipe dream. It just doesn’t work. As your life can depend on this tent functioning, the sort of compromises you are thinking of are … unwise maybe?

Having a complete vapour barrier on the INNER tent is a seriously bad idea. You will get heaps of frost overnight on the inside of the inner, which in the morning will get you and your gear wet, plus you risk running low on oxygen.

Air beams … chuckle. A poor idea which went nowhere.

The idea that it might be that easy to upgrade a Hilleberg tent just like that is (something) but cannot be taken seriously. Hilleberg have a very long experience in this game: they know what they are doing.

Subscribe to BPL and read the huge range of technical articles before you spend lots of money.

Cheers

[Ken Thompson]

Z packs no longer does custom work.

I have my winter shelter and a couple of three season choices. This has worked well for me.

[Matt Dirksen]

Michael,

As Roger said, replacing the inner of a Jannu (or any double walled tent for that matter) with cuben would be extremely unwise.

The most important reason why double walled tent inners are made from lightly water resistant, but very permeable fabric is to push the dew point out beyond the inside of the first layer, where vapor will condense on the inside face of the outer layer.

While many of us have searched high and low for that one tent for all occasions, its always important (especially in potentially dangerous weather) to make sure one has the “right tool for the job”.  Therefore, I’d suspect many of us have more than one tent, depending on the trip.

Infact, I’d suspect many of us probably have too many tools to choose from!  :)

[Roger Caffin]

“Too many” is in the eyes of the beholder. :)

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

btw helleberg uses 1200d kerlon on the jannu (STRONG STUFF!)

Kerlon 1200 is 30d ripstop nylon.Silicone coated on both sides.

[Michael F]

frost overnight on the inside of the inner, which in the morning will get you and your gear wet, plus you risk running low on oxygen.

I kind of realized this earlier, so I began looking at very light dehumidifiers, which sent me down another interesting rabbithole…check out roshal micro dehumidifiers/humidifiers …very interesting stuff…

The inner would have had vents, however, the cuben inner in theory would have been made near identical to the default one, though I guess, that might still not be enough due to the material difference…

might just abandon the concept all together and get the zpacks dublex 2 for 3 season and a sub 2 pound northface bivvie for cold….would need to have something for snow loading though dont want to get buried alive

[Edward John M]

7 lbs isn’t heavy given the context and really is a compromise between weight and strength. I’m looking for an Arctic winter tent myself so watching where this thread goes.

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

Cant a person have two tents?

And to get REAL extreme… two sleeping bags?!?!

[Edward John M]

What do you mean only two?

Winter and deep winter?

[Jeffs Eleven]

I suppose youre right. Theres alpine winter, also.

[JCH]

Infact, I’d suspect many of us probably have too many tools to choose from!  :)

Sigh! 5 tents, 3 bags, 3 backpacks.  I’m not even going to pretend that those numbers won’t increase, nor do I doubt that there are plenty of folks out there that make my paltry stash look silly.

The thing is, I use every single one of them when the time is right.  There is no single piece of gear for all conditions.

[Rick M]

What about the the Stephenson’s Warmlite 2R tunnel tent?

https://www.warmlite.com/product/climbers-two-person-tent/

[Ken Thompson]

Still would like to know what winter experience our OP has and where does he plan on using this system.

You know, so we can find out why what is already available doesn’t work.

[Roger Caffin]

We reviewed the 2R in our survey of tunnel tents. I was definitely NOT impressed. Design, space and quality all poor (imho).

Cheers

[Michael F]

Still would like to know what winter experience our OP has and where does he plan on using this system.

Very little. I have slept outside in an igloo twice, in NC. So virtually none. However do not be alarmed. I have disposable income, and do not plan to actually venture into anything too treacherous anytime remotely soon. I am only looking for a tent like this because as I grow, I will not have to buy a new tent for some years potentially. and in the case of some kind of freak weather during my learning sessions I have something very safe. Potentially as I advance my skillset, I can be using the same tent. Saving money by planning ahead. and planning for the worst, while my skills are low, might save my ass

[Pierre Descoteaux]

I second Roger’s opinion on the Warmlite tents. I would never buy one of their products again.

For a truly stable shelter I would look at tunnels but if you’re not into those I’d have a look at the Crux tents from the UK. I had to deal with them for an issue on an old climbing pack and they were very helpful. A stand up company!

[Matt Dirksen]

Roger,

Did you ever review a TNF Westwind?

The original version?

For the OP, the Westwind was a four season, 5.5lb tent by The North Face. While they haven’t made it for many years, I’d suspect they might be more available in the US than a MacPac Olympus.

[Michael F]

Westwind was a four season, 5.5lb tent by The North Face

Link?

[Roger Caffin]

No, I have not managed to get hold of a Westwind. I gather they went out of production many (many) years ago. That figures: companies always discontinue their best products in the hope you will buy what marketing thinks is an upgrade. It never is.

But yes, it looks as though TNF may have copied it from Macpac.

Cheers

[Matt Dirksen]

“But yes, it looks as though TNF may have copied it from Macpac”

If TNF did copy it, they didn’t to a good job, imho.

When did MacPac come out with the Olympus?

I remember selling Westwinds while working in a gear shop in ’87-’90. I think the Westwind came out in ’80. (Too bad there weren’t no internet back then. Hilleberg, Noall, MEC, Macpac… they were whispers in the wind to me.)

[Roger Caffin]

> When did MacPac come out with the Olympus?

Hum – lost in the shades of time. Must be some time in the 70s I guess. Macpac started in 1973 with packs, but the Olympus was one of their first tents.

Cheers

[Pierre Descoteaux]

I just looked at the Lightwave site and figured you could be interested in their Arctic and Mountain series… just food for thoughts…

[Roger Caffin]

They are not bad tents – both the tunnels and the geos.

However, their persistance with side-entry makes their tents extremely long. This can be problematic in finding a tent site – or need a whole of extra work stomping the extra length of snow down.

The sleeping end of their designs is very low – OK for your feet but you could not have someone sitting back there out of the way. That becomes very awkward when one of you is trying to cook dinner at the vestibule end.

Pity.

Cheers

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