Leor Pantilat – Sierra High Route FKT attempt

[Allen C]

Leor is in the middle of an FKT Attempt on the Sierra High Route.

It looks like he started at Road’s End at about 3:30 am on 8/6 (yesterday) and as of today 8/7 at 4:48 PM was on his way down from Puppet Lake into French Canyon. I don’t know the mileage but it looks like he is moving pretty damn fast over some rough terrain.

http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0MG361q5uXV1UdPxUbNskRVB0XHsJL7PQ

[Art …]

I think a Route would be a bit harder to create an FKT on than a trail. There would have to be some minimum number of agreed upon points to hit, otherwise each attempt could be its own FKT due to differing lines of movement.

[Ralph Burgess]

Mileage at a few points that should be easy to identify:

0  Road’s End
30  Mather Pass
52  Muir Pass
69  Puppet Pass
81  L Italy outlet
102  L Virginia inlet
119  Red’s Meadow
137  Glacier Lake Pass (by Banner Peak)
158  Vogelsang Pass
169  Tioga Rd
180  Sky Pilot Col (Shepherd Crest)
195  Mono Village (finish)

 

[Art …]

I think the mileage would be irrelevant in a route FKT, the common points of contact mentioned would be what defines things.

[Ralph Burgess]

http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/thread/585/ropers-sierra-high-route-ca?page=1&scrollTo=2213

Brian Lucido holds the FKT at 6d – 13h – 35m
Brian did this last year, unsupported – I thought this was a remarkable effort given the terrain involved.

But superman Leor is going MUCH faster.

I’m really interested that Leor is going unsupported here too.   Is this a new phase for Leor, multi-day unsupported?   I’d love to see it.   I think if somebody with his world-class physical prowess is now prepared to take on the challenges of backcountry survival without support, he could raise the bar considerably – I see him going under 3 days for the JMT, for example.

Having said that…  has he gone out too fast on this effort?   I wonder what his strategy is?   This speed is just astonishing if he can keep it up.

[Ralph Burgess]

Art,

Great that your first reaction is a vague attempt to question the validity of what he’s doing.  Haven’t we been here before, when you insisted that it’s easier to fake a SPOT track with a relay team than it is to fake emails from a few random strangers who claim to have seen you?

Nobody is going to devote time to devising rules for anything until the pioneer attempts are made, and then the rules/conventions will emerge organically and can be discussed.

Brian Lucido described what he was doing last year – following Steve Roper’s canonical route, which is thoroughly and accurately described in his book.  The mountain passes are natural waypoints, and the precise route between them (where it’s off trail) is not critical.  In general, Roper (and Andrew Skurka) describe optimal routes between the key passes and other major junctions, and I can’t offhand think of any shortcuts that are not blatantly deviating from large sections of the essential route that Roper describes.   In effect, in his description of the route Roper has already done what you suggest.

But can’t we just celebrate what Leor’s doing for now, and argue about the arcane theoretical details of a general rule system for off-trail FKT’s if and when it really becomes necessary?

[Allen C]

Ralph, good points  – however I think at this juncture it is of the utmost importance to argue about whether he will “claim” to have carried a bear can or not.

[Paul S]

He is going fast.

Isn’t it possible, particularly at FKT speed, to hike thru bear can required sections, e.g., Dusy Basin, Yosemite and Mammoth, that is not camp within and remain legal?

[Allen C]

Paul – Yes, it is quite possible and completely legal. My above comment was very much tongue in cheek – see previous thread on Amber’s JMT FKT for context.

[Allen C]

I just found out that when you see a “Custom” spot message (such as the one at 7:29pm tonight), that means he is going to sleep for a while.

It sounds like he is going for a time of about 5.5 days give or take…which would be very impressive given the amount of off-trail travel involved – and only traveling in daylight means he will be able to get lots of sleep but will have to move fast while it is light.

[Ralph Burgess]

From extensive research of the bearcan issue…. nobody knows for sure!   It’s really not clear whether the regs mean that you cannot traverse one of the relevant zones at all without a bearcan.  I have heard vehement arguments on either side of the issue, none supported by clear evidence;  and none of the regs are written with the 60-mile-per-day “hiker” in mind.

[Paul S]

Thanks Allen. I thought so… I was planning on carry a Ursack for my attempt later this month. ;-)

It looks to me like he may hit this out of the park.

[Art …]

Ralph – I happen to be a big fan of Leor’s, so yes you misconstrued what I said above.

I was simply saying that when a route is not well enough defined, every FKT attempt could end up being its own individual attempt. Who was that guy a couple years back, Kurt, who did the JMT n-s but changed a slight portion of it so that it was essentially called a different route by Peter.

On the other hand … humankind is replete with those who travel a road they claim not to, just look at the Olympics.

 

 

[Allen C]

Art – I don’t mean to pile on, here, but I do think it is important to note a few points in relation to your posts:

1. I am no expert on the Sierra High Route, but it has been defined, documented, and published by Steve Roper, and is in fact called “Roper’s High Sierra Route” on the FKT page, with waypoints and passes as noted in Ralph’s post above. The exact mileage and exact route each person takes between the various passes and/or waypoints is clearly going to vary – and in fact, choosing the best/most efficient way between these waypoints is an integral part of the challenge in an off-trail route such as the SHR.  This is not an ultra with crews and pacers and aid stations ever 5-10 miles and is not meant to be.
2. Clearly every FKT attempt IS its own individual attempt, whether we are talking about a trail or a route. No two attempts are identical or ever could be – so this statement is meaningless.
3. Kurt did not “change” the route when he did the JMT – a portion of the trail was CLOSED at the time due to an active fire in Little Yosemite Valley, so he chose to take a different route for the section between Happy Isles and Tuolumne rather than abort his trip. His route was similar in mileage but differed enough that it was not considered the “official” JMT. He did what made sense under the circumstances and was completely transparent about it, there was no deception or even any accusation that he was trying to cheat.
4. In a previous thread you mentioned that Amber “claimed” to have carried a bear canister. She did not “claim” this, she stated it as a fact in her trip report. She also stated that she carried one last year, both on the FKT site and in her trip report, and prior to her trip stated that she was planning to carry one. So unless you have some reason to doubt her integrity, or some evidence that she did not in fact carry a canister, using the word “claimed” is a backhanded way to call her statement into question. If you have reason to doubt her integrity perhaps you should do some research and present the evidence to support your doubts.
5. Humankind and sports in general may indeed be full of cheaters. But unless you have some evidence that someone has actually cheated in the FKT context, making vague and unsupported insinuations is entirely unhelpful, not to mention disrespectful to those who are out there actually going for it,  putting themselves through severe exertion, suffering, and personal risk for little to no personal gain, aside from some fleeting internet notoriety and perhaps more lasting character-building.
6. This is Leor’s thread, so GO LEOR!!!!!!!!!

[Ralph Burgess]

Art, you claim that I misconstrued your persistent negative attitude on these threads, then two sentences later you move on to doping insinuations?   I’d rather listen to Tipi Walter talk about FKTs, at least he’s entertaining.

It would be one thing if your negative comments had any basis in reality, but they generally don’t.

If you want to make a positive contribution, go study the Sierra High Route: get the Roper book and point out specific parts of the route where there’s a likely problem.  Then no doubt some combination of Peter Bakwin, with perhaps Andrew Skurka and the prior record holders could chip in with what they think is the best approach for consistency in attempts going forward.

Absent that, what relevant point are you trying to make?  Leor shouldn’t bother because a theoretical cross-country route could in principle have theoretical problems of the type you describe, even though this actual route does not?

[Ralph Burgess]

Allen, on the daylight issue:   there are some fairly long continuous on-trail portions, notably Mather & part of Muir on the JMT, and from north of Vogelsang down to Tuolumne.   I expect Leor will have planned to do some of these parts in darkness, although it’s hard to plan several days ahead with precision.   But probably that’s why he started at 3:30am — the first section is trail, and he’d be hitting the first off-trail section around daybreak.

[Aaron Sorensen]

When I found out Leor was making an attempt on the JMT, I immediately called him and asked if he needed help.  I knew it would be broken and wanted to be part of it.

I see his time splits at possibly under 5 days.

I planned for a fast attempt on the SHR a few years ago and after 40 hours, he is only a few miles from where I wanted to sleep on night 3 (basically 65 hours in).  This was for a sub 8 day schedule.

[Allen C]

Ralph, good point on the trail sections. I asked Erica what his plan was and this was her response:

“sleep when the sun goes down, get up when the sun rises. Finish in 5.5 days potentially sooner potentially later. Come home in one piece, no injuries.”

I’m sure this is somewhat fluid and may only apply to the off-trail sections like you said. I bet he’s capable of 5.5 days even without much traveling in the dark though!

[Justin Baker]

Is he carrying sleeping gear? Or is he scrambling off trail in the dark with a headlamp?

[Allen C]

Justin, I’m sure he is carrying sleeping gear.

[Allen C]

Spot shows 10 hours of rest last night, from 7:30 pm to 5:30 am near LaSalle lake.  He went over Feather pass early this morning and through the Bear Lakes Basin, and is now past the lake Italy outlet which according to Ralph’s data above is mile 81.

It looks to me like he knows he can crush this FKT even while getting a full night’s sleep every night.

[Ralph Burgess]

At 2:30pm Leor’s near Bighorn Pass, around mile 95.
He will be well past the halfway point by the end of day 3.

[Ralph Burgess]

Looks like Leor has camped for the night at Deer Lakes – beautiful spot.
He has completed 110 miles (out of 195) at the end of day 3.

[Allen C]

Looks like Leor spent the night at Vogelsang lake and is on the move again with about 38 miles to go, so he should finish by tonight which would be well under 5 days!

[Simon Kenton]

At a time when most eyes are watching athletic supremacy in Rio, a world class effort is finishing up in the Sierra.

Truly amazing to behold.

Congratulations to Leor and thanks to Ralph and Allen for the updates.

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