How can we get backpackers to wash their hands?

[AK Granola]

Just read a recent article about the Kalalau Trail in Hawaii being shut down, because of Norovirus. And many more articles in recent years about this poopy-hands disease being spread in all kinds of outdoor areas. There is one well-known Youtuber who is vocal about not using soap (at all, and not because of LNT and keeping water bodies clean) and maybe there are more influencers doing the same. He claims that you only need water to kill germs.

It’s so ridiculous to me, and I just don’t understand why people didn’t learn proper handwashing in Kindergarten (or before, and reinforced there). In this latest story, a professor of infectious disease at Johns Hopkins says ““We have rules in health care that if someone has norovirus, it’s soap and water only.” “Alcohol gels and wipes do not kill norovirus.” He even states that hiking is a risk factor for getting Noro! Talk about a reputation for dirty backpackers! Makes me want to avoid them too.

Is this anti-handwashing trend a result of the distrust in medical officials from the covid epidemic? A distrust of experts in general?  It’s so gross. And dangerous for some folks as well.  Where is it coming from and how we can we as a community help change this behavior?

[Terran Terran]

Squatters not following regulations.

[David D]

We’ve had discussions on BPL about this.  Even very experienced hikers think hand sanitizer is good enough.

Its not.

Sanitizer isn’t effective against giardia, crypto, noro or chemicals

Just need to keep up the messaging.

But its an uphill battle.   Reddit Ultralight voting shows that if its not already “common knowledge” (confirmation bias “I was thinking the same” vs “I learned something today”), it usually gets ignored.

[Arthur]

The list if bugs that survive hand sanitizers is quite long, including adeno (cold) and CDiff (killer GI bug).   Most studies on sanitizers are done with clean hands, not the grimy, dirty hands of hikers that give the bugs places to hide.  In the OR, we wash our hands with soap for 5 minutes by the clock.  That has been standard practice for 100 years.  Maybe it’s because it works to prevent infections.  There was a case study years ago with a group of hikers that all got sick.  They were sure it was their failed water filters and/or bad water.  The testing showed it was not the water, it was their shared poop.  There are probably a thousand posts on water filters here, maybe 5 on clean hands.  Maybe our focus is a bit off here.   AK, thanks for starting this important topic.

[MJ H]

My guess is that the number of hikers not washing their hands because they think hand sanitizer is sufficient is maybe 1/10th of the number of hikers not washing their hands because they don’t wash their hands very often when they aren’t hiking either. Best not to think about it too much.

[AK Granola]

Arthur – you reminded me of the days I had to scrub to go into the NICU for my youngest son. 9 days of scrubbing up several times a day to be able to hold my baby. No questions asked; I didn’t want to bring anything in there!

[Jerry Adams]

I don’t touch anyone else, directly or indirectly

[Terran Terran]

Participants Facebook report.

[DWR D]

I will admit… I almost never use soap or hand sanitizer… but then, I hike solo in remote places where others are not touching the same stuff as me. Never been sick out hiking (knocking on wood)..

[Phong D]

Newbie question.  Does a bidet prevent this?  I’ve never used one.  Do you need to touch your poo when using a bidet?

I bring the little alcohol wipes to clean my hands.  Does that work well?

[AK Granola]

The bidet eliminates (haha) the need to touch your bottom, so technically no, you aren’t going to get contaminated hands. That said, I still wash after, and just as important wash before eating with my hands. No, alcohol wipes do not work.

[Terran Terran]

It sounds like the toilets were contaminated with poop piles everywhere. Probably not much clean water.

[Terran Terran]

Gaughan said that his group encountered a mother living next to their campsite with her partner and their infant child, who appeared to be about 6 months old. The mother told members of his group, as well as a friend who camped there a month ago, that she had given birth to the child there.

Megan Wong, a Kauai resident and Native Hawaiian whose family traces its lineage to Kalalau, said that her family and other volunteers have done much of the work in recent years to convince long-term squatters to leave the area as part of their own efforts to clean up the area.

[Dan]

I will admit… I almost never use soap or hand sanitizer… but then, I hike solo in remote places where others are not touching the same stuff as me. Never been sick out hiking (knocking on wood)..

Yes, my first thought was also that I couldn’t relate to the premise. Backpacking for me is a totally isolated experience. I rarely see anyone, and I certainly never touch them or come near enough to infect them (or vice versa).

But I’m certainly aware of the through-hiker culture, which involves a lot of socializing, so it’s important to promote hand-washing.

[Terran Terran]

I learned to wash my hands in hot water. Reading it takes 140* water to kill norovirus though soap can remove it. Ouch. In many popular sites, the grounds are filthy. You can wash your hands all day long and still breath in particles or even absorb the virus thru your skin. You won’t catch it from yourself. Wash your hands, but mostly stay out of popular campgrounds without proper management.

Norovirus hand sanitizers

[Jerry Adams]

You won’t catch it from yourself?

I’ve always wondered about that.  I can see how taking bugs from your large intestine and inserting into stomach, small intestine could cause a problem

 

[Ben H.]

The issue is lack of clean water and knowledge.

People not realizing self-contamination is the main issue even within this thread is disconcerting. These people are not getting sick from others. They are unintentionally contaminating themselves with their own fecal matter. Wash your hands!

My issue in the backcountry is clean water is a rare commodity. My plan in the past was to wash my hands in dirty water (at the source without soap) and then “sterilize” them afterwards with hand sanitizer. Clearly that is not effective based on this and other recent research. Adding soap to the equation means creating waste that I now need to deal with (away from water sources). It certainly complicates the process… but a necessary complication that I will need to figure out.

[Terran Terran]

Of course wash your hands. It’s also on your clothes and all your gear. It’s in the air. Dust blowing over your food. The issue is lack of clean water and facilities. Too many people.
You can only reintroduce what has already passed. I don’t see where anybody’s recommending to do it anyway. Looking for the root of the problem, that isn’t it.

[Dan]

Ben. My understanding is that you only shed norovirus in your stool once you are already infected (and usually only after you are symptomatic). So I disagree with your assertion. Self infection is not the main issue here, IMO. The topic is well documented.

[Jerry Adams]

I wonder if there are any good studies about self contamination

[Terran Terran]

They’re still looking for volunteers.

[Jerry Adams]

yeah, ethical considerations prevent many studies :)

[jscott]

I recall reading from some reputable source that one can contaminate onseelf through exposure to their own feces.

i once hiked with someone who didn’t wash his hands. he passed around his gorp bag at night. No thanks.

I’ve taken some hazing for passing on eating out at those Nigerian (?) restaurants where folks scoop with their fingers out of shared dishes of food and also eat with their fingers–and then scoop some more. the food’s been good the two times I’ve gone!

[Megan W]

My husband worked for NOLS in the past. He talks about teaching some groups about the importance of HOW to wash their hands.

The participants were asked to wash their hands with soap the way they usually did (for most of them, it was a cursory lather and rinse), then the staff put a gram stain on their hands – colouring the remaining bacteria. LOTS of bacteria (would have been viruses etc present also.)

Soap is better than sanitiser, however you still need to scrub your hands over properly. As in the ‘covid hand washing instructions’ which were posted in all public toilets in Australia 🙂

[Bill in Roswell]

NV is rampant on the AT in the earlier part of hike season. Shelter log books, shelter tables, privy door handles, sharing food by hand are the primary spreaders on the AT. NV can survive for weeks on non-disinfected surfaces, which would be the entire AT, CDT, PCT. Though I no longer hike for weeks at a time, my circle of younger hiker friends are full of Triple Crowners and other multi week hikers. To a person they all know to use soap, esp if you stop at a shelter to socialize. One bout of NV will teach you – soap first. I do wonder how effective 90% alcohol would be. Most hand stuff is 70%. In the old days, white gas would kill any germs on your hands or any hard surfaces! The few YT long trail hikers I follow know the soap rule, often from direst experience. To be honest, if you know of YouTubers that promote not using soap, not mentioning  the name is doing the hiking community no favors. They should be outed in the name of public health (my ex wife is a public health educator).

[Author]

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