Hell in much larger than a handbasket

[BlackHatGuy]

Two interesting articles:

In The Guardian: Nasa images show extreme withering of Lake Mead over 22 years

In the Week: National Parks under siege

[Monte Masterson]

And yet thousands and thousands of people are still moving to Arizona and Nevada each year. Texas has become hotter than the gates of hell. With the decades long droughts and increase in mind bending heat there’s no way I’d move to Texas now, regardless of how good the economy is. The Lone Star state and Florida have seen the most population growth in actual numbers, but Texas seems to be even worse off with the accelerating effects of global warming. At least Florida is surrounded by water and that moderates the temperatures somewhat. And periods of drought are less frequent in the Sunshine State, however the increase in powerful hurricanes and sea level rise are making Florida look quite vulnerable.

I’m now seeing a lot of articles and YouTube videos about the how the Rustbelt might become a refuge for climate migrants. Since WWII the Sunbelt has seen the most growth and the Northeast and Midwest have been in a general population decline, but the effects of global warming have been accelerating lately faster than what most people thought possible. So the parts of the US like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, northern Ohio, etc might see a significant resurgence. Keep in mind that the Great Lakes contains the world’s largest concentration of fresh surface water and the Rustbelt generally gets good rainfall each year. The old cities of the region already have an infrastructure in place that just needs retrofitting to become functional again.

https://www.mymovingreviews.com/move/where-to-move-to-avoid-climate-change/

[David Thomas]

A hot day at my house is 70F.  A very hot day is 75F.  80F sets records.  Just saying.

[Bonzo]

A hot day at my house is 70F.  A very hot day is 75F.  80F sets records.  Just saying.

Stop tempting me.

:)

[SIMULACRA]

In 1000 years the earth with be in another ice age. And everybody will be whining about the constant 30d temps. Ugh! Have you ever looked at it in that perspective? just sayin’

[Jerry Adams]

I can now grow cantaloupes in Portland

To you people moving to Nevada and Arizona, you don’t want to move here, it’s miserable and always cloudy.

[d k]

AND you have tornadoes, Jerry!

[Jerry Adams]

just at my house, blew some shingles off and across the field it caught an umbrella which swirled around until landing in a tree :)

 

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I live in Henderson, Nevada, right next to Lake Meade and yeah, water is a growing concern. The Las Vegas Valley has for years been using less than its annual allotment despite the area more than doubling in population in the past 20 years. (from one million to well over two million, mostly California ex-pats.)

Maybe Arizona could use less water for growing alfalfa?? Or California could use a LOT more drip irrigation and cover their crops’ ground to prevent evaporation? Gonna have to happen, and very soon.

And THEN our brilliant Nevada US senators (Dems) and representatives (mostly Dems and some Republicans) proposed the Clark County Economic and Environmental Lands Act WHICH WOULD SEND SPRAWL DOWN THE EAST SIDE OF I-15 FROM HENDERSON TO JEAN, NV, 40 MILES AWAY!! And does this bill require a Green Building Code”? Hell NO!

->How about 2″ x6″ exterior studs for more insulation space?

->Or mandatory rooftop solar?

->Or mandatory ground or air-to-air HEAT PUMPS?

->Or desert-only plantings?

->Or 240 volts to each home for EV vehicle charging?

->Or only ONE natural gas outlet to backup the heat pump in extreme cold? (No more gas ranges, hot water heaters or driers OR decorative fireplaces.)

->Or light color surface streets for less “heat island” effect?

But Noooooo, they never thought of these things because it’s a gift to developers to yet again build as cheaply as possible with no thought to the future. Aaaaarrrrgggghhh!

Finally, where do we get the water for all this new sprawl? And do these legislators think about all the “infill space” still in this valley that is good for at least another ten years of “development”? NOPE!

[Arthur]

“The old cities of the region already have an infrastructure in place that just needs retrofitting to become functional again.”  Retrofitting is an inaccurate minimalization.  The green area on your map that I moved from had wooden water pipes that leaked frequently.  Electric service incapable of supporting electric cars.  Etc.  Total rebuilding of the infrastructure at a huge expense is more like it.

[Mart]

Monte,

Yes, Texas is hot. Yes, Texas seems to have gotten hotter over the last 20-30 years, but I question whether it’s a result of climate change or just normal climatic variations. Climate change is not the changes one sees in a lifetime.

People don’t move to Texas because they enjoy a “blistering” August (that’s what air conditioning is for). They move to Texas because of October through March. And because of friendly people. And, perhaps, to escape the madness that is California.

[jscott]

 

 

“climate change is not the change one sees in a lifetime”. Umm, I’ve watched Lyell glacier disappear in about a decade.

I have a friend who lives in Austin. It’s a wonderful city! except…it’s raging hot for many months on end, AND humid, and filled with allergens. But of course the Texas legislature is eminently sane and compassionate. Why, just look at how its responded to the many recent gun massacres perpetrated in friendly Texas. Downright Buddhist, in the sense of embracing emptiness and death.

[Mart]

See what I mean by the “California Madness!”

But, thank you for your compliment regarding Texas politicians. I normally don’t trust politicians–either color–but the Texas pols are, at least, a little saner than most.

[Matthew / BPL]

We are getting kinda chaffy here. BPL removed Chaff a while ago.

The topic here is an environmental issue and that topic touches politics which leads to lots of deeply held beliefs. The thread has been reported using the Report This mechanism… I haven’t moderated anything yet and I would prefer to not intervene. Please read the block of text above the Submit button and avoid sarcasm/argumentative posts.

[AK Granola]

It’s a good discussion, everyone stay civil. Don’t let politicians get in the way of our conversation.

Human-caused climate change has been documented since the late 1800s. On an anecdotal level I’m watching trees falling all around my house and neighborhood, due to melting permafrost in the soil, and huge thermokarsts are opening up. I can walk a block and show you these enormous pits. We can walk past ponds that are rank with methane bubbling out, summer and winter. I’ve seen glaciers disappear just since I arrived in Alaska 30 years ago. Winters are warmer and wetter in the Interior of Alaska and there is no question that the earth is heating up fast. Your map doesn’t show whether or not Alaska will be a good bet for a place to live with climate change, but I certainly wouldn’t move to the southwest. No matter where you go, how will you handle an influx of refugees? We already are dealing with that problem for political reasons, but climate change will make it so much worse.

Anyone still out there with doubts, but with an open mind to scientific facts, please check out this EdX course – it is FREE. You will learn a lot about the work our scientists are doing here in Alaska to document all the various aspects of climate change, get a better understanding of what is known and what is still unknown. Ultimately the atmosphere is heating up, rapidly. I guess climate change is like evolution; there will simply continue to be doubters out there clutching their bibles (not sure what the equivalent is for CC). But the science is real. It is here, and although scientists will forever argue about the data, the methods, etc. as they should, they don’t doubt that climate change is upon us, now and humans are the major contributor.  The impact of feedback loops are hard to predict. Check out the course.

https://www.edx.org/course/climate-change-in-arctic-environments

I’ll also add a photo from a really nice visualization done in the hallways of our research building, showing the average annual temperature trends over the 20th century to the present. Blue is colder than average, red is hotter, obv.

https://uaf-iarc.org/2022/07/iarcs-giant-climate-stripes-boldly-proclaim-arctic-change/

We should have acted boldly to start slowing our CO2 in 1970, when the environmental movement actually had some sway with both political parties. I do believe now that all is lost, because everyone in power seems in it for their own gain. I just don’t see that people are a species that can act rationally as a group. We seem to no longer believe in the “public good.” It’s all about me, me, me.I wish I had more optimism. Fortunately we still have some beautiful nature and good antidepressants to soothe us while Rome burns.

[Mart]

There has always been climate change. The planet goes through climatic cycles lasting tens of thousands of years. Shorter term fluctuations–100 to 500 years–are not necessarily indicative if impending disaster.

Man is adept at adaptation. Regardless, if we want to “hedge our bets” and be on the safe side, reducing CO emissions is probably prudent. The problem is, current suggestions are not robust enough. EVs and lithium batteries have their own environmental downsides. Today’s renewable energy is not reliable or dense enough to be a long term solution. And it’s too expensive per kWH. The poor of the planet–the majority of humans, unfortunately–will suffer greatly.

Until technology improves over the next couple of generations, the best we can do now is to convert coal power plants to cleaner natural gas, ramp up bringing nuclear online, and let science and entrepreneurs continue to work on future solutions. Take the government out of the equation. Politicians just f**k things up. Let capitalism take over. Our present energy companies are our best bet at finding solutions. It’s in their best interest to do so. Changing the climate dilemma is a process. It won’t fully happen during the lifetimes of anyone reading this post.

[Monte Masterson]

Over 36 billion metric tons of CO2 emitted worldwide in 2022. The atmosphere is a finite and all of the CO2 doesn’t magically escape into outer space. There was a slight dip in emissions during Covid in 2021 but now rates are increasing again to the highest levels yet seen.

For every action there is a reaction. To think that all of the fossil fuel burning (89% of CO2 generation) doesn’t affect climate is like saying cigarettes don’t cause cancer or consuming loads of saturated fat doesn’t increase heart problems. And oh yea, the moon landings were fake, the Old Testament story of Noah’s Ark is historical fact and the Holocaust never happened.

But the petrol chemical industry loves things the way they are because they rake in billions each year. I totally expect them to play down carbon induced global warming. Money is their God that they worship.

Just in the last 50 years the world’s glaciers are disappearing at a staggering rate even faster than what was predicted. Sea levels are rising in a manner that is quite visible. Try telling the people of the Seychelles Islands for example that sea level rise isn’t real. And thermometers are very accurate by the way. Simple record keeping and basic statistics show the world is heating up at an accelerating rate. It’s not all made up by “socialists” and those on the political left who hate capitalism. We’re talking real science here, not pseudo-science coming from the climate deniers.

When I look at the freeways of American cities with all of the millions and millions of cars clogging the way, and more times than not with only one person inside of a fuel inefficient automobile that’s bigger than what it needs to be, I realize we have a very long way to go in lowering emissions from transportation (about 20% of world CO2 output). Then when I see only a few people living in big houses which are many times larger than what’s needed, I must say that changing the mindset of Americans is probably an insurmountable task (power generation 38% of global CO2 output). Nevertheless, China is the world’s number one CO2 emitter with almost double the tonnage spewed out by number two the United States. Remember that when consuming all those cheap Chinese made goods.

So yes, the Sunbelt is looking less attractive all the time. Again, thermometers don’t lie. Rain gauges are very accurate and they are getting less water in them each year.

But thank God it’s finally raining (and snowing) in California. Of course it’s still not enough to make up for decades of drought.

 

[W I S N E R !]

Take the government out of the equation… Let capitalism take over.

What’s fascinating here is the willingness to essentially remove the voice of the citizen from the equation, turning all decision making authority over to private entities with no duty to provide transparency, beholden not to “the people”, but only to shareholders and profit.

 

[W I S N E R !]

Say what you will about the dysfunction of government, but relinquishing our citizenship in favor of “the invisible hand” doesn’t seem like a very good strategy.

[Mart]

It’s the Exxon-Mobils of the world that will have the most to offer regarding climate mitigation. And–yes–it’s that evil profit motive that’s responsible. Corporations thrive when they provide services people actually want. Companies that don’t, die. That’s  the beauty of capitalism. And when was the last time the government–at any level– was truly transparent?

[AK Granola]

How well did the profit motive do for opiate drug addicts? 100,000 + dead this year alone. Thank you Sacklers (living comfortably on their yachts). Big business does not in any way have our best interest at heart, absent strict regulations.

[Roger Caffin]

Corporations thrive when they provide services people actually want.
Sounds very good. But not entirely accurate.

“Services to the public over the next five years” take second place to “dividends to the fund managers and other investors over the next quarter” usually wins.

Or, in simpler terms, short term profit beats long term environmental issues.

Cheers (or otherwise)

[Mart]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Roger, you have a point. I just happen to believe that “next quarter” and “long term” are not mutually exclusive events.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>AK, you’re  pettifogging. Don’t change the subject.</p>

[Mart]

Even better…

How about NO political parties.

I’m done.

[Steve S]

We just had this lovely cold blast in the lower 48 — which means that a bubble of warm air was injected into the north.

https://earth.nullschool.net/#2022/12/20/0100Z/wind/isobaric/500hPa/overlay=temp/orthographic=-122.90,86.47,289

(500 millibar/18000′ winds shown)

[Author]

Posts