Having a terrible time sewing webbing and grosgrain

[Giles D]

I bought a Sailrite LSZ-1 to make bags with and I’m losing my mind trying to get the tension right. Im using a size 16 needle and Tera 40 thread. I’m sewing 2 layers of seat belt webbing in half to make a handle and unless I crank my top thread tension so tight that I see the loops on top of the fabric, I get loose thread loops on top and sometimes n other top and bottom. Is the synthetic fabric grabbing too much when sewing synthetic webbing? Please help I feel like I’m losing my mind. Ive spent weeks on this and even returned the first machine I received. It feels like I need to change the tension for everything I sew thats different. I’m wasting huge amounts of material trying to dial this in. Can anyone offer help?

[Giles D]

This is specific to binding by the way! Thank you.

[Philip Tschersich]

So just to be clear, the machine sews all other projects neatly and correctly and only gags on folded over seat belt webbing?

[Giles D]

Yes, I can adjust tension no problem but when I’m binding with grosgrain or webbing or sewing folder seat belt webbing I get the occasional loose loop of thread … usually every few inches or so.

Could it be me feeding the material improperly? Should there be any tension on the fabric as I feed it under the needle?

[Giles D]

Here’s an image for visual reference:

Stitching problems

[Giles D]

In this run every 4 or 5 inches I ger a reliably frustrating loop of thread.

[Philip Tschersich]

It’s a walking foot machine so you really can’t control the feed of the material anyway. All I can figure is that maybe you may not be threading the thread correctly? The thread tensioner can be finicky. Sailrite has some good instructional videos and I bet they would be happy to chat on the phone to get you sorted.

Common tension mistakes on youtube.

[Jerry Adams]

stupid questions, sorry, maybe it will inspire some useful idea : )

do you have the correct needle for that machine?  maybe try several different types of needle

there is a groove on the side of the needle that faces front on my machine, maybe you have it rotated so it’s facing rear or to the side

are you pushing or pulling the webbing through the machine?  maybe just let the machine feed by itself, keep your hands off.  Although there are times when you have to push/pull

is the thread going through the correct path in the machine, for example going in between the two pressure plates of tension control?

try sewing just one layer of webbing and see if that works

try anything different and see if it makes any difference, maybe it will behave differently creating an ah ha moment

[Jerry Adams]

what I hate is when there’s a bird’s nest on the bottom.  For some reason that happens more when I sew velcro onto fabric.  It just happened a little while ago so I just stopped, cut away the bird’s nest, re-did it and that time it worked.  Maybe I’m pushing or pulling or the pressure foot is at an angle and sort of slides off sideways

[Philip Tschersich]

If you forget to drop the pressure foot you will absolutely generate a bird’s nest on the bottom. That is the only time that happens for me.

[Dave @ Oware]

check for burrs on the needle and hook

IE change out needle (maybe larger size too, just for web)

look at hook and feel for burr

 

[Edward John M]

#16 needle sounds on the small side for webbing, try a #20 or #21

[Chris R]

#16 is fine with Tera 40 and you really should have no problem sewing 2 layers of webbing though seat belt webbing is pretty tough stuff.
one thing I have experienced is the thread twisting between spool and thread tensioner. Loops form in the thread and when they reach the tensioning plates the thread momentarily jam before unravelling and pass through.
try with some Mara or other thread. You could always use some Mara 70 and just stitch twice.

[Giles D]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replaies, wow, what a generous bunch of helping people. I’m honestly a little moved.

This is 100% it! Right here >

“#16 is fine with Tera 40 and you really should have no problem sewing 2 layers of webbing though seat belt webbing is pretty tough stuff. one thing I have experienced is the thread twisting between spool and thread tensioner. Loops form in the thread and when they reach the tensioning plates the thread momentarily jam before unravelling and pass through. try with some Mara or other thread. You could always use some Mara 70 and just stitch twice.”

I’m sure of it. I’ve been seeing the twists and these loops only pop occasionally, and when they do I see the twist in the thread. At first I thought maybe I was feeding off the spool improprly, but this is 100% the problem.

So … wow, it’s not me, or the machine, thank goodness, this has beena  problem I’ve been struggling with for months at this point. What a relief.

So @bothwell-voyageur, aside from wanting to give you a hug lol, what have you done to remedy this? Because I’m having to crank my upper tension down really hard to avoid this from happening even with regular grosgrain when I’m binding the insides of my bags. Is there a s olution? What’s actually causing this?

Thank you!

[Dave @ Oware]

Make sure the thread take-up spring hasn’t broken off and is threaded properly. lack of this will do just what you describe.

https://www.sailrite.com/Thread-Take-Up-Spring-for-Ultrafeeds

Sometimes a little oil on thread helps, some machines have a little trough with a sponge for oil that the thread passes over.

There is also such a thing as right and left twist threads for use in double needle machines If you somehow got the wrong twist it can form loops, not common tho.

[Chris R]

Tera seems to behave very differently when it comes off the spool compared to Mara. Seems to almost fall off and because it’s purely a bundle of twisted fibres maybe that’s why it forms the loops. I’ve even had it happen while trying to wind a bobbin. Perhaps the direction it comes over the feed arm over the cone of thread makes a difference? How about putting an extra twist in the thread to increase friction over the arm? Sorry, clutching at straws here!

[Giles D]

@bothwell-voyageur: If I was to try another thread for bags and outerwear (jackets made of Cordura type fabrics), what type of threads do you think I might not have a problem with? Is the Mara worth a try? What other brands of thread do you think are worth looking at? I had the same problem with the thinner Tera 80 BTW!

[Roger Caffin]

I have seen this problem myself, even with an old but utterly reliable black Singer (sewing range light silk to hessian bag). The problem seemed to be that with really thick webbing the needle was lifting the webbing a bit on the upwards, and this was lifting the foot. As a result the thread loop underneath was not forming correctly and was not in the right place to be picked up by the bobbin hook. Hence missed stitches and other problems.

I tested this diagnosis by putting my finger on the foot, pressing downwards, so the foot never lifted. The machine then sewed without fault.

So, I corrected the fault by increasing the downwards force. There is usually a spring adjustment for this. In fact, this is why the spring is adjustable: so the machine can handle really thick stuff. If you want to sew light silk later you might want to back the force off a bit. I just use a different, lighter, machine for light fabrics.

You will also see this problem when sewing leather, which is why you can buy special ‘leather’ needles. They have faint cutting edges so they make a larger hole when they go through the material. Heavy coated Cordura and other heavy coated fabrics might show similar problems, but I would NOT use a leather needle on woven fabric.

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

This just happened to me today

Thick fabric folded over twice

I just sewed it again and it worked fine that time

That makes sense about the foot lifting, the needle had a hard time pulling out of the fabric

[Roger Caffin]

Yes, the second time often works fine. That may be because the needle is going into the same holes, and coming out more easily.

I went to buy thread and fittings at a wholesaler many years ago. Quiet time of the week, so I got to talking with the old guy who apparently ran the warehouse. I think I spent an hour chatting to him, and I learnt more in that hour of listening than I had previously learnt in a year of sewing. And you think ‘commercial sewing’ is simple?

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

If I go fast it seems like it better pulls out the needle without lifting foot

If I go slow its worse

If there’s a row of stitches with some missed stitches, it holds the fabric in place so the second row of stitches can be done fast

[Roger Caffin]

If the needle goes up quickly, the webbing and the foot may not have time to respond. So – better.

Cheers

[Edward John M]

Were we talking Tex Sizes in threads here or Metric sizes?
Tex40 threads are a different size to Metric40.
I use #16 needles for M60 thread but need to jump to #18/#19 for M40
I see where the confusion came in.
Interesting point Roger and I’ll get the machine I have checked for the stronger hold down spring at the next service

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Ed
Maybe, if you only a small amount of webbing to sew, you could just lean on the foot with your finger?

Cheers

[Edward John M]

I’m sewing pulk pull harnesses again so lots of webbing on the next project. Also I need to go up a grade in thread as the M60 bonded nylon wasn’t strong enough even in bar-tacks.
I will eventually get it right tho.

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