Efficiency and resting while ascending

[Matthew / BPL]

@jimmyb made this comment in the Inefficient Backpack thread and I’d like to know more about it so I thought I’d try to fork this discussion off into a separate thread…

“…as the rest step where one leg is locked at the knee giving a bone supporting rest to that legs muscles while the moving leg rests its muscle structure in its transitioning step until it is placed in a lock knee position using the same bone structure for support and resting those muscles. Seems to me this has been around for quite some time and I use it frequently when the inclines are goat like and I’m considerably beat up.”

If I understand correctly you are saying you lock the downhill leg while stepping upwards. Do I have that correct? How do you lock your leg? Do you hyperextend backwards?

I’ve certainly experienced leg fatigue on extended climbs and I’d like to know more about what you are describing.

[Pedestrian]

I think I first read about the “rest step” in the following; it’s origins go much further back certainly.

https://books.google.com/books?id=GwyXx4DzDjwC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=rest+step+mountaineering+freedom+of+the+hills&source=bl&ots=lEpvgOnY1y&sig=eAKKEo04T3CkGKPZgo0MlqrHqmc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE09qM2L7VAhWqslQKHedhDLkQ6AEIRTAE#v=onepage&q=rest%20step%20mountaineering%20freedom%20of%20the%20hills&f=false

Other useful references:

https://sectionhiker.com/the-rest-step-winter-hiking-footwork/

[Matthew / BPL]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the links and the video.

[Bob Moulder]

Also google “French technique crampon” for some ideas on foot placement.

Some of the techniques have crossover applications to regular hiking, one being duck walk (pied en canard) which is handy for getting maximum available grip for climbing on loose stuff.

 

[JCH]

Without knowing it was officially “a thing” I have duck-walked many times when a steep trail insisted on demeaning my physical conditioning…or lack thereof.

[Bob Moulder]

Indeed, a lot of techniques come to us naturally despite some folks’ claims that they invented them.  :^)

[Matthew / BPL]

Yep, I’ve duck walked up snow and loose sand or gravel inclines before without knowing it had a name.

[Ken Thompson]

Related reading

http://www.trailspace.com/forums/backcountry/topics/71240.html

[Matthew / BPL]

Good find, Ken. Thanks for sharing that.

[Ken Thompson]

That was passed on to me, seems relevant.

[Kevin B]

That trailspace article was written by S.Steele, same avatar pic as his bpl one.

Interesting points worthy of discussion.

[Bob Moulder]

A mix of old news, impractical claptrap and psuedo-scientific nincompoopery.

The comments section below the article pretty much covers it, reaching the same conclusions. Better off watching some Zahorian vids on youtube. A guy that is out there banging off many consecutive 40-50 mile days probably knows a thing or 2 about efficiency.      ;^)

My 3¢ anyway.

[S. Steele]

Bob M: Instead of the clap trap coming from your mouth why don’t you try the techniques. You speak without any representation to the facts submitted.

Yes, it’s my article that I placed on Trailspace, many years ago and previously on the Tradewinds, website. The lock knee technique is the only technique I learned from another person – Dr. Martin Jungman, an Austrian doctor, back in 1968. While on level ground lock the knee of the leg that is a little forward of the other leg and then thrust your body forward as your other leg rises off the ground.moving forward. Learn to do it with each leg and you will gain significant ground quickly.

Matthew: For ascents I recommend the breathing technique and occasional use of the crouch technique as your thigh muscles are not accustomed to being in that position. You’ll gain more distance with each step as your legs are extended. Angle of slope should determine the amount of crouch employed.

[Tom K]

There is no substitute for proper conditioning.  Pay your dues in that regard, and the rest will come naturally, as your pace and leg/foot work adjust to the terrain you are ascending.  Simple as that.

The French Technique, rest step, etc are primarily applicable to high angle snow and ice, and also for high altitude ascents.  My 2 cents of claptrap.  ;0)

[Bob Moulder]

and the rest will come naturally

Lucy and her child figured it out several million years ago. ;^)

 

[Richard May]

I like that rest step, I’ve used it too.

I tried something new last week: shorter steps. Instead of reaching out with long strides and pushing up the hill, I tried shorter, faster steps. By keeping my body over my feet on the down step, gravity can pull forward, allowing me to use some of that energy towards moving. It’s a running technique I tried to adapt to walking uphill.

I found it useful. Maybe someone else has experimented too?

[Matthew / BPL]

I do that too sometimes. A shorter step with a quicker cadence feels like it uses different muscle groups to me.

[Paul S.]

Shorter steps are much easier on the body.  Think walking up a ramp with small steps vs. taking stairs two steps at a time.

[Ken Thompson]

Low gear

[Roger Caffin]

And let the radiator cool down a few times too.

Cheers

[Matthew / BPL]

Yep or spinning vs mashing the pedals on a bicycle.

[Richard May]

The radiator needs topping off too!

I found trekking poles to be more of a nuisance than an aid. They forced longer strides and it was easier to pump my arms when they were empty. I found that to be true coming back down.

[S. Steele]

Richard: I agree with you regarding trekking poles. They’re an additional load that expends your energy as you raise and lower them. However, when you need a third leg for stability crossing a stream or descending safely they can’t be beat. That’s why I prefer to grab a downed limb for such occasions. Additionally, numerous tarps and some tents depend on the trekking poles unless you can access one or two limbs for same.

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