Durston Wapta 30

[Gregory S]

I love my Kakwa 55. My base weight is 12.5 pounds but a long water and food carry may boost that to 22-26 pounds. I can get my gear in a Kakwa 40 but for the few ounce penalty went with the 55. Just love the thinking in this WAPTA. For those who have gone frameless (I have never) what’s the biggest adjustment I will have to make to thru-hike with this pack? Can I count on the Hip belt to take much (any) weight? Can my packing strategy help much? Should I just wait for a WAPTA-like Kakwa? Love to hear from someone who has made the change tp frameless. Thanks, GREG

[Matthew / BPL]

Greg, there are lots of different answers to your questions about frameless packs and there are lots of threads on the topic or you can start a new one.

My subjective experience is that I love the feeling of framed packs up to around 15 or 16 pounds of total pack weight. I like frameless packs with a wider hip belt but I find it requires the pack to be loaded very carefully to get adequate weight transfer and even then I’m only extending my comfort range by another pound or two. I started experimenting with CCF pads as a “frame” packing everything burrito-style but then I realized that a lightweight frame does what I want at a lower overall weight with increased comfort and vastly improved simplicity. Also then I’m not carrying a CCF pad as part of my sleeping system which is good because I don’t really want a CCF pad as part of my system (other than a 1/8” CCF sit/torso backup).

tl;dr: if you want weight transfer to a hipbelt my $.02 is go for a light framed pack. YMMV

Here are some resources:

BPL podcast on Frameless Packs https://backpackinglight.com/episode-61-frameless-pack-best-practices/

How to load a frameless pack https://backpackinglight.com/best_packing_for_ul_backpacks/ or https://backpackinglight.com/module/backpacks-and-packing-systems-5-how-to-pack-a-frameless-backpack/

 

[jscott]

“Can I count on the Hip belt to take much (any) weight?”

that’s an excellent question. I’m one of those who need weight off my shoulders and onto my hips. For that to happen, some sort of frame is required, in my experience. But I’ll stipulate that my experience with frameless packs is limited. I could never get one to work! Moreover, if taking weight off shoulders and onto the hips is important for you, then a well padded hip belt, or anyway a very functional and comfortable hip belt, is also important. You can still get pretty light packs that meet all of these criteria. I’d rather leave behind a couple of candy bars to compensate for the extra weight of a framed pack, if it comes to that.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Greg,

With a frameless pack I think about it like most people are okay with 10-15 lbs on their shoulders. 10 lbs is nice, 15 lbs should be okay. If you get to 20 lbs that pushing it. So a hipbelt-less pack is good to about 15 lbs. When a pack has a hipbelt like the Wapta then you can get some hip transfer but it is pretty dependant on how well the pack is packed and compressed. 5 lbs on the hips is quite doable, 10 lbs is maybe the upper limit on what is fairly doable, and 15-20 lbs might be claimed occasionally but isn’t the norm.

So for the Wapta, you could probably use it for loads up to 15 lbs without putting any thought into it (e.g. no transfer to the hips) and then could get to 20-25 lbs if you are intentional about how you pack and compress it. So I would say 25 lbs max, sub 20 lbs ideally, and you’re great if it’s sub 15 lbs.

That’s what it can work for, but if you’re regularly in the >20 lbs range then you probably would be happier with a frame. So if you’re starting trips around 20 lbs usually and getting to sub 15 lbs then it’s good. If you’re only occasionally starting around 25 lbs then then it’ll work, but if starting around 25 lbs is the norm for you then I would stick with a framed pack.

[Gregory S]

 

Dan,  I appreciate the time it took to reply. My base weight is 12.5 lbs. For the PCT there will be days with a very heavy water carry but not more than a handful. First day out of town, maybe 4-7 pounds of food. So for the majority of time~ that’s under 21 lbs. I’ll brush up on packing strategies, although I normally pack tightly already. Two more questions: BearVault will fit vertically? or outside? I am assuming outside given the overall pack volume. Finally, a thought question: I am imagining a properly packed WAPTA30 with the belt properly tightened around my hips. As I loosen the shoulder straps, doesn’t that force more weight transfer to the hips? Or does the bag just keep dropping lower than the belt, maintaining the weight on my shoulders? I appreciate that you personally answered my questions; speaks volumes about your commitment. GREG

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Any BV will fit vertically inside but if the pack is quite full you’ll have to move it on top. You might be able to do something like a BV450 inside.

For the load transfer, if the pack is filled firmly then as you loosen it a bit at the shoulders that weight does transfer to the hips. Whereas if the pack is floppy/limp then it’s just going to keep sagging. At first a limp pack will sag/collapse vertically (“torso collapse”) to put the weight back on your shoulders. If you keep loosening it and loosening it then eventually it would stop collapsing and the weight would be on your hips – unless it’s so loose it’s falling backwards off of you. So the bag won’t really drop lower than the belt, but rather would collapse (compress vertically) until finally it has enough vertical rigidity to put the weight on your hips.

Hope that makes sense,
Dan

[Murali C]

So my load out with 2.5 liters and 5 days of food (8.5 lbs) is 22.5 lbs. With a frameless pack, there are 3 options:

a) carry entire 22.5 lbs on your shoulders

b) carry 2.5 lbs in a fanny pack and 20 lbs on shoulders

c) carry 4.5 lbs in hip + fanny packs and 18 lbs on shoulders – you can go higher than 4.5 lbs I feel and I will experiment more on this. You will run of small volume things to keep in these hip/fanny packs soon. I keep electronics, tent stakes, water filtration, spoon, first aid kit, rain gear, day’s food/snacks etc distributed amongst the 3 hip+fanny packs.

I have done all 3 and of course love “c” a lot. I don’t have specific hip packs per se…but, I just have 3 fanny packs where 2 of them act like hip packs and the third one as a traditional fanny pack.

It seems like there is a point at which you will feel like you have lot less fatigue and are able to travel faster with lower heart rate etc as you keep reducing load on shoulders. Increasing load around your waist doesn’t seem to impede speed or discomfort etc. 4.6 lbs on hips/waist etc is a very small amount. Of course, the limit around discomfort etc will vary from person to person. You will have to experiment to see what that limit works for you.

I don’t use waist belt or sternum strap or any virtual frame etc. I actually like the load to be loosely packed so that it can mould to my back better. My current favourite pack is GG Murmur. I used to think I needed a burly pack all the time – but, after using Murmur for training for 300+ miles – I have changed my mind and am happy with this pack. I actually love the thin shoulder straps with no foam..it seems like it moves with my shoulders rather than thick shoulder straps that restrict some movement compared to these thin straps. I still have my trusty MLD Prophet for bear can carries (Bearikade Blazer) etc. I need to figure out how to carry a bear canister in GG Murmur. Most likely get a BV450 or something like that or keep the Blazer empty outside the Murmur.

Anyways my 2 cents for using a frameless pack. I guess experiment and see what you can move off of your shoulders.

[Gregory S]

You have obviously given this a lot of thought. I like it. So, three separate lightweight fanny packs with three belts?  I gave some thought to a lightweight fanny pack that actually rides on my fanny carrying a water bladder. That’s two or three liters (4.4 to 6.6 lbs) off my shoulders. To boot, many frameless packs ride high on the back, so there might be adequate room. Too bad we can’t carry our water on our belts. You have given me a lot to think about. GREG

[Murali C]

Yes – 3 fanny packs with 3 different belts. I started with one fanny pack on the hip. It started moving towards the center tummy area. I had to keep moving it back to the side. When I had 2 fanny packs as hip packs, one fanny pack which is first fanny pack stopped moving while the second one kept moving. So, the center fanny pack keeps the two hip packs from moving towards the center. Also the center fanny pack is the last one and this one stays a little higher – so no interference with crotch etc so it actually is good while climbing steps etc.

I also keep my phone in one cargo pocket of pants while Inreach mini is another cargo pant pocket. I also keep NUUN tablets with some candy etc in a smelly proof pack in my pant pockets for easy access. Another pant pocket will have my wind jacket – Zpacks one which folds down nicely.

I have realized divide and conquer concept is a great way to distribute weight all over the body. If your frameless pack rides high, then you could even have a fanny pack with two water bottles on your lumbar area. Mine is not that short…so, I cannot do that. But, I have thought about that. Sierra Designs makes a flex pack with water bottle holders on the side for lumbar carry or front fanny pack carry.

[Matthew / BPL]

I love this line of thinking and I agree that fanny packs can lock into my hips and not slide down in a way that a frameless pack’s hip belt can.

[jscott]

I dunno. Three fanny packs to enable you to carry a frameless pack seems…fiddly.

Having to carry a bear canister is one reason I could never get a frameless pack to work. One of several.

I do use a fanny pack turned around onto my stomach below my framed pack hip belt. I use it to carry lunch, map, and a Steripen for easy access. It’s more for easy access than getting weight out of my pack. I have all my food in a canister, except the cold lunch I carry in the fanny pack. I don’t want to have to dig out the canister to get lunch. Or necessarily take off my pack to reach my steripen, although I usually do.

[Jason Brooks]

I’d love to see a version with running vest shoulder straps w/ pockets capable of holding 750 ml bottles, 2 sternum straps, and 2 attachments points on the pack for each strap to suck it into your lumbar region w/out a hipbelt.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Running vest straps would be cool. Maybe one day but we just started shipping out the regular version a few days ago. You can add multiple sternum straps to the regular version, but not dual attachments for the shoulder straps (although I wouldn’t be surprised if someone can rig something up with those unique side daisy chains). The shoulder strap pocket are larger on the Wapta and might fit a slim 750 ml (e.g. Smartwater) but 500ml is probably better suited. The primary purpose of those pockets is a phone.

[Jason Brooks]

Thanks for responding, Dan. It looks like an awesome, well thought out pack, despite my personal dream pack vision (Haha!). The main thing I will be looking at is if I can figure out a two point shoulder strap attachment to the pack. I’m pretty set against hipbelts as I’m super sensitive to how they impede free hip movement. I’ve found the 2 point shoulder strap attachments to really work in supporting the pack from the lumbar area.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Here’s the pack with the hipbelt removed, and then for the second strap you could tie something (perhaps using shockcord) to the nearby laser cut daisy chain (orange line). That would work, but would pull the flap the wrong way, so it would be a bit unsightly. Better would be to connect to the far daisy chain (red line).

One other wild idea would be to connect to the cord lock at the back cord of the side pocket. You could disconnect the side pocket elastic (tie it to a fixed length) and then run the extra strap through this cordlock. The cordlock is sewn to the pack with a loop. That may work but might slip at higher loads.

Lastly, you could use that built in webbing adjuster on the sides. Tie the end of the skinny webbing to the tip of the shoulder strap (pink line), and then use that adjuster to cinch it.

[Jason Brooks]

I’m curious if its possible to make the Aluula fabric in a light enough weight to use for tent fabrics.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The lightest current weight is 52 g/m2 whereas a typical silpoly is about 45 g/m2, so it’s not way off but it’s also unnecessarily strong and would be better to have a lighter option. We don’t have something like that now but I hope they will consider developing it, as they do have some neat technology.

[Bill K]

deciding on a new daypack. currently using a MR Scree 32 (July 2023). waiting for my Wapta 30 to show up. was shipped from Vancouver and just cleared customs in CA. will be comparing it to the ULA Ultra Photon which arrived a couple days ago.

[Mike]

My Walt’s showed up today. Feels pretty amazing so far. Going to take it out next week for an early season overnight in the Sierras.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Glad the first impressions are good Mike. Thanks for giving it a try.
– Dan

[Peter Lester]

Dan,

Any plans for a smaller version of the Wapta?  25 – 30 liters total? I think the Waptap 30 is about 36 liters – 30 liters internal + 16 external.

 

-Peter

 

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I’m going to give our pack line some serious thought in the next year now that the X-Dome is essentially done. I’m not working on a smaller Wapta now and am not sure of our next steps, but it is something I will consider.

[Øyvind H]

Smaller (25-30l total) Wapta with running vest style shoulder straps would be very nice for day hikes and hut-to-hut hiking.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

A smaller Wapta that is running/day hike oriented would be a nice option. It would take a while to develop so I can’t say if it’ll ever happen, but I do like the idea.

[baja bob]

Smaller (25-30l total) Wapta with running vest style shoulder straps would be very nice for day hikes and hut-to-hut hiking.

If you want a smaller capacity pack made from the Aluula Graflyte with vest-style straps you can get that from Nashville Packs. Nashville Packs Made to Order You can select torso size and vest strap size.

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