DCF Tunnel Tents?

[Lance]

I’m noticing that I cannot find a tunnel tent made with DCF. Does anyone know of specific reasons for this? It seems like it would be a great idea. For example, tarptents doesn’t make a DCF option for the Cloudburst 3 or Rainshadow 3.

[James Marco]

Good question. While DCF/cuben is extremely light, tunnel tents are not not. Mostly this is due to the poles. You need long, around 11′, poles usually two of them. Roger cheats with his poles producing a gambrel type roof. This allows stiffer poles, of lower diameter and lighter, than would otherwise be required.

As such, the longish, flexible poles are not really useful for dual purposing. Many of the popular tents use treking poles as supports. This keeps the overall weight down. Adding two 4-6oz poles to most tents makes them rather heavy. For example ZPacks Duplex lists 19oz for the weight. Adding a set of poles means it weighs 24oz.

Two poles @11′ would mean about 12-24oz in additional weight that cannot easily be dual purposed. A system of three segments would be required to make a hiking staff, due to the flexibility. Sorry, I don’t really know of any such system, today, though even these would be on the heavy side requiring a tip and handle. A typical hiking staff is around 4-5oz.

Anyway, this sort of negates any weight advantage to a Tunnel. For car camping they work out great. I really like them. But for deep woods hiking, they are just too heavy. Whenever anything goes more than 1pound per person, it is too heavy to carry into the woods for me…just to lazy to be bothered, I guess.

[Link .]

Here is a good discussion from 2014 thread MYOG MOUNTAINEERING CUBEN TUNNEL TENT? .

[R]

Drop this in to Google:

site://backpackinglight.com tunnel dcf cuben

Also try the image search option.

[Franco Darioli]

From that BPL thread

lightwave T 20 Vapour

[James Marco]

Franco, even that one is very heavy at 1.95Kg or 4.3POUNDS for two people. For UL travel, more than double what the Rule of Ones allows at 1lb per person.

[Jon Solomon]

If you left the inner at home and used the t20 Vapor XT as a poled tarp, you could sleep up to four inside. I’d guess the inner is about 800 grams at least. I could see scenarios in which I’d prefer that to an Ultamid 4.

The problem in my view is that DCF in those weights is puncture prone. Icicles falling from trees and hailstones falling from the sky can and do turn it into “swiss cheese.” Horses for courses. If I were heading to some extreme and inaccessible environment, I’d choose the robust silnylon version over this one for the extra margin of safety.

TFS (The Free Spirits), a Hong Kong/China based operation, has shown some designs that incorporate DCF, including the tunnel below, as well as pyramids and hybrid DCF/silnylon domes. They don’t currently offer anything in DCF, but they might accept custom orders if you contact them directly.

[R]

Jon,

What is the tent in the photo?

Not very often you see a tunnel with a single stake at the end.

 

[Jon Solomon]

I think, but am really just guessing from memory, that it’s a DCF version of their “Airwalk” tunnel tent (not in production anymore).

[Franco Darioli]

It’s a TFS Yoto tent. 1.75 kg

BTW, Jon was spot on about the weight difference between silnylon and DCF ijn a tunnel design. The Yoto is available in silnylon at 20g (0.71 oz) heavier for the same configuration.

[Jon Solomon]

That’s good to know, Franco. Thanks for the correction.

[Franco Darioli]

I can’t tell the difference between those two. Looks like the Yoto is possibly a mod of the Airwalk or the same re-named.

[Jon Solomon]

Checking the Chinese language websites, I think that Yoto and Airwalk are indeed alternate names for the same tent, 雲途 （in traditional script）or 云途 (in simplified script), pronounced “yuntu” in Mandarin.

Nice call, Franco.

[Jon Solomon]

TFS have just announced the release of a new version of the Yoto, called the Yoto Pro. It’s basically a standard two person, dual pole tunnel tent using 10D silnlyon (sourced from Korea) coated on both sides. Packaged weight is advertised as 1.55 kg. It looks a lot like a stripped down Hilleberg Nammatj 2, but makes a few different tradeoffs. It’s hard to tell from the information available so far, but the venting is much simpler than on the Nammatj 2. Yet both ends of the tent can be zipped off to create a completely open poled tarp structure. Also the Yoto Pro borrows from the WE First Arrow and uses guy lines running from the top of the pole to the corner pegs to increase stability. But I can’t see any way to fasten the door on the vestibule half open. Hmmm. Guylines in dyneema. Coming in at half the weight, however, it is obviously designed to fill a completely different niche. It looks like an awesome generalist tunnel, provided you’re willing to put up with the decreased longevity of the 10d fabric. The price in Hong Kong is about US$450, a lot less than a Hilleberg, but still a significant bushel of clams. Most users, esp those who need one tent for a wide variety of conditions (EXCEPT the more extreme end of the spectrum), would probably find their needs met most of the time by the Yoto Pro. The design has a lot more internal volume than the Hillberg Anjan or Nallo, and is lighter than both, while probably able to match them in terms of stability and ease of set up by one person in stormy conditions.

[James Marco]

3pounds 7ounces is a LOT of tent.

[Jon Solomon]

I know whatcha mean.

Dan Durston’s 2P X Mid is almost certainly going to come in well below that, cost less, AND be more functional.
Tarptent, too, offers a slew of attractive choices.

But the Yoto Pro looks* like it offers a lot of protection in an easy to use package. A great choice for some people. (*Pending more information about the details of the design).

[Paul S]

The Yoto looks nice…but..to me it looks like same ol’ problem with sloping tent wall up against the foot-end of a sleeping bag.

 

[Franco Darioli]

Based on this :

I would think a 6′ person may just fit on a thick mat without touching the end of the inner.

[Jon Solomon]

There’s a big difference between a tunnel that has two poles of the same height and one that has poles of different heights. I noticed this moving from a Nammatj 2 to an Anjan 2. I’m only 170cm (5’7″) so not tall, but with the more exaggerated slope at the end of the Anjan, my sleeping bag regularly touched the end wall. Not so with the Nammatj 2. The Yoto has the same geometry as the Nammatj.

A useful comparison could be between the Vango Force 10 Xenon UL2 and the Yoto Pro. The Vango uses 15D instead of 10D for the flysheet and 70D instead of 40D for the groundsheet and so is a little heavier. But with internal guys and gothic arch poles, it looks like it would be better in a storm. Neither tent though has very good ventilation.

[Franco Darioli]

yes almost exactly the same size as the Nammtj 2

[Jon Solomon]

But the tail end of the Yoto is actually significantly narrower than the Nammatj.

[Jon Solomon]

I think that 38cm difference makes the Yoto basically a tent for intimate couples (preferably using a couples’ quilt), or shorter people, only. Rules out the Yoto for anything really deep winter-ish.

[Martin D]

Me and my two climbing partners use a 3F UL 15d tunnel 410x160x120. Outter only with 3 poles in sleeves, 1.4 kg all in. It is cramped, but we make it work with all bags inside. Gotta have a boarding/unboarding schedule and be tidy. 2.5kg saved was worth it for us.

[Roger Caffin]

A lot of very academic armchair discussion over whether a tent weighing X grams is ‘too heavy’. No-one seems to have even considered how the tent behaves in a howling storm – which just incidentally happens to be when you need it most.

I favour a groundsheet 2200 mm long rather than 2150 mm, but the difference is minor. On the other hand, having a sloping end wall where either my feet or my head goes is NOT good design, for obvious reasons. I also favour at least 3 poles as a 2-pole tent has a far-too-long fabric span between poles for a storm.

While DCF/cuben is extremely light, tunnel tents are not not. Mostly this is due to the poles. You need long, around 11′, poles usually two of them. Roger cheats with his poles producing a gambrel type roof. This allows stiffer poles, of lower diameter and lighter, than would otherwise be required.
I have problems with these claims.
My summer 2-man 3-pole tunnel tent weighs 1342 g with poles.
My winter 2-man 4-pole tunnel tent weighs 2200 g with poles
And the poles are under 9′, not 11′.
On the other hand, yes, the poles are quite robust CF tubing and have taken many storms.
Is this cheating? I would’nt have a clue. I am not even sure what ‘cheating’ means in this context.
Pierre D did make a DCF tunnel, but ended up not really happy with the material. The lack of stretch was problematic.

Cheers

[Pierre Descoteaux]

For the sake of clarity…

I really hope that I did not give the idea that the lack of stretch of DCF is why I did tents in Silpoly  and Silnylon as later projects. And I apologies to all if I did so.

My only real issue with DCF is the price! It also seems to take a little more room once I fold and roll the tent and force it in a stuff sack. If I had a bigger budget, I would make a small 2 man tunnel out of 0.8 or 1.0 osy DCF in a heart beat! Maybe even a single wall tunnel out of the waterproof/breathable DCF. Money is forcing me towards Silnylon for this newest project.

The polyesters I have used in the past were not nearly as good as expected due to very low tear strength. It is hard to find at a competitive weight and with only silicone coatings (adding PU lowers the tear strength too much too my taste and I will not go this route again. I could just be paranoid…).

Silnylon on the other hand never cease to amaze me. Its only draw backs are (too me) the sag and UV resistance (Climbing in Alaska is on my radar…). The sag is easily taken care of with Roger’s bungee cord use.

Cheers

[Author]

Posts