CPAP for backcountry.

[Steven Reed]

Here is my setup for backpacking:

CPAP/Battery Pak                                     grams   ounces

• Resmed Airmini                                      294       10.4
• Mask & Hose                                          109         3.8
• Adapter cable (Medistrom)                       24         0.8
• TalentCell 24V LI Battery PB240A1       416        14.7

Total                                                        843        29.7

I’ve used this on several trips and usually get 3 nights use out of one battery. The Airmini is an autoset machine and I generally set it for max pressure of 6 or 7.

[Liz Black]

My x and I backpacked high Sierra for hundreds of miles in over 7 years, apnea was notisable when he slept but slept 10 hours normally and had plenty of energy next day, cpap was left at home

[Ian]

I’ve no personal experience with it but a heat/moisture exchanger may be an option that can reduce the power demands and still provide moisture.  I can’t imagine sleeping without the added humidity as that would dry me out.  I do live in the desert with no perceivable ambient humidity FWIW.

http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/2018/02/sizing-up-heat-and-moisture-exchangers-travel-cpap/

[Edward John M]

This is interesting as I often can’t sleep with the humidifier on, even at minimal values, I feel as if I am drowning so I usually use my machine with the tank empty or at the most 10% filled so it dries out in about an hour, an hour or so is usually about how long it takes me to enter REM sleep apparently

[Ian]

I’m still in the learning curve phase of things as this is my first month.  I’m really struggling with it and trying to get it dialed in.  Even with a mask over my mouth and nose, I was waking up with a dry mouth.  I’ve turned the humidity up from 5 to 6, so that’s now taken care of, but I’m struggling to breathe in it.

I hope all this improves as I get used to it.

I may try one of the dental devices and see if it’s any better.  As of right now (not quite a month) it feels like my quality of life has been diminished, not improved.

I’m still trying to sort out travel and backpacking.  They wouldn’t prescribe me a travel size one, or at least the smaller ones that were available at the office because they didn’t have the ability to track my performance with the machine and put the data on an SD card.

[Edward John M]

Are you fully hydrated when you go to bed?

I have found it makes a real difference, even if at my age I might need to rise and go halfway thru the nite I sleep better when I am not dehydrated. Also I have found that using a prescription topical corticosteroid helps Even Rhinocort helps and I can buy that over the counter

Also are you shaving at nite or in the AM, I now shave in the PM so that the mask fits and seals better. Mind you I hate shaving, pre C-PAP is was fully bearded when at all possible

[jscott]

Ian, for me the learning curve took some time, but was/is definitely worth it. I feel tons better using cpap. It also helps my health in other ways.

Masks are difficult. I used a P10 nasal mask for several years and loved it. It’s very minimal and easy to adjust to. But I’ve become a mouth breather and just took up a full face mask. Like you, it’s taken about a month to dial it in, but now it’s easy peasy and I sleep for hours at a time during the night.

But I’ve already gone through the initial getting used to cpap. Hang in! People who make it through the early stage tend to love this machine because of how it helps. I do.

If you’re not a mouth breather, nasal masks are fantastic.

the dental devices don’t work for most people, but do for some. They have their own issues (aching jaws and loose teeth, etc.)

http://www.apneaboard.com is helpful I’ve found.

[Edward John M]

Personally I would opt for jaw surgery if I could afford it but it is a very expensive and moderately painful experience I am told.

I have two acquiescence who had the surgery tho and they both say it is life changing and the 12 month+ process was well worth the effort. It cured their snoring as a side benefit to fixing a dental problem

[Ian]

Thank you gentleman.

Edward,

I do a reasonably good job of staying hydrated but I’ll try pounding an extra glass before bed.

Jeffrey,

Yes on the mouth breathers.   I tried to use a nasal mask for about a week with a chin strap to keep my mouth closed.   My mouth kept opening in spite of the Hannibal set up.

[JeroenB]

Try the Ruby Adjustable chin strap  TMS-09ADJ. it gets high recommendations everywhere because it’s better than all the others. It even made my apnea’s go down from 2-3/h. to 1-1,5/h (while using CPAP).

[jscott]

You can also tape your mouth closed. I tried this. Very claustrophobic. My doctor just shook his head. Not a good idea he said. He’s right. full face mask it is.

[Ian]

Thanks Jeroen.  I’ll check that out.

Jeffrey,

“You can also tape your mouth closed.”

There’s actually a company that sells a product that tapes your mouth shut for CPAP usage.  I think that would freak me out.

[jscott]

“I think that would freak me out.”

Yep. That’s my experience. If the machine goes down, you can still breathe through a face mask. If your mouth is taped and you have nasal pillows, you can’t.

I could never get any chin strap to work.

[Edward John M]

I just bought myself a portable CPAP machine. Somebody in another forum was selling one cheap and had enough trust in his fellow man to send it too me without payment [ I paid shipping] so I can pay it off over time. Including postage it was a fifth of the price of buying new here in Australia

It’s the BREAS Z1 and it is OK, now I am trying to find a cost effective alternative to the dedicated battery pack, it works with my usual mask.

I had to bail from my last trip after only 2 days because 2 nites without effective sleep and I was RS

The dedicated battery alone weighs 440 grams and only provides about 8 hours run time, I haven’t found out how much the power-shell weighs but it must be at least 200 grams.

So also needed would be a solar panel that could be fitted to the top of the rucksack and some dedicated charging circuits and I can see a package suited to long trips weighing over 3 kilos

[Wannabe Adventurer]

You need to be realistic, solar technology is just not good enough yet to recharge a CPAP battery.  Yes, you might get 10-20% if its a sunny day and you are not in shade but it is unrealistic to think you can recharge a battery in the day for the power you use overnight.  I guess if you only have a pressure of 4 or something you might do it if you are lucky, but if you only need 4 you can probably get away without a CPAP. The best way to think of solar is just to top up your battery to get a lay in or maybe get an extra night on a 4 or 5 night trip.

Have a read of this to set your expectations.

https://www.wannabeadventurer.com/post/hiking-backpacking-with-a-cpap

 

[Edward John M]

From your blog post I don’t see if you use the solar panel fixed to your pack while walking. Do you do that or only use it while in camp?

I was hoping to be able to use a bigger solar panel when I camp for skiing as I do that by hauling in gear on a sled, but I would like to avoid hauling big deep cycle batteries that weigh 30 kilos +

I had a tentative budget to buy 2 batteries and restrict my use to ~5 hours a nite, the minimum I am informed is OK, and while I could stand to lose some weight the excess isn’t the cause of my particular problem unfiortunately. Hoping to top up the battery during the day to extend my walks into a week

[Wannabe Adventurer]

Hi

I have tried putting my solar panel over the rucksack whilst walking but it will take very little charge as you may be under trees or constantly moving and changing direction to the sun.  You will get very little charge.  For backpacking I have tried most things with solar and in most cases solar is just about useless.  The only real exceptions are:

1. if you have a base camp that is not under trees, then it is useful and you can keep a large solar pad out all day whilst you are out on day hikes.

2. if you are sledding and pulling apult then of course you can open up a large solar panel on the top of your sled and get some rays.

 

It is surprising how much power you need each day for a CPAP and its also surprising how inefficient most solar panels are.

[Edward John M]

Then I will have to save for a bigger solar panel for my fixed camp and limit use of the machine to every second day or so I guess.

Setting up a small battery pack to use AA lithiums would cost $40- a night so compared to that cost a solar panel is cheap by comparison

 

[Wannabe Adventurer]

Yes unfortunately solar power isnt there yet for backpacking.  Definitely get a bigger solar panel for your base camp, I would suggest a Powertraveller Falcon 40 or something bigger. Avould the Goal Zero it is overpriced and not as efficient as others.

For backpacking, last trip in Greenland I took 2 batteries for 9 nights (250g per battery), with dropping max pressure on the CPAP to 6 and limiting use to 6hrs per night and adding a topup with solar panel I survived.  I put the alarm on for 6hrs, woke up turned it off, and then grabbed another couple of hours not on the machine.

 

I tested many solar panels and the cheap ones are cheap for a reason. Their efficiency is low.  I found the Powertraveller ones good and also surprisingly the old Anker one fairly good for the money.

[Edward John M]

I use the Ryobi 1+ portable power tools a lot. Maybe I should look at an 18V to 12V adaptor to be able to use my battery packs

9AHr at 18V should be enough for a full nite even allowing for conversion losses and those are cheap compared to brand name CPAP batteries

https://www.bunnings.com.au/ryobi-18v-one-9-0ah-lithium-hp-battery_p6210807

[Jerry Adams]

Maybe use a bunch of 18650 rechargeable batteries.  They’re a pretty cheap way and lightweight way to get energy.  6 or 7 might get you an acceptable voltage.

If you set cpap to lower pressure, you don’t need humidity.  I set mine to 4 or 5 and never use the humidity function.

If I sleep on my side I don’t need a lot of pressure

[Edward John M]

The appropriate 18650 batteries are $24- each here and I would need a dozen of them in series/parallel to get the capacity I would need. I have messaged Ryobi with a suggestion that they bring out a new adaptor with both USB and 12V outputs. At the moment the portable power-pack batteries look like my most affordable option for the actual battery.

Things change so rapidly tho with the virus ruining our states economy that they might even get heavily discounted soon

[Max L.]

Steven – I was looking at a setup like yours, but can’t find the AirMini cable adapter. Do you have a link?

Is it this one, that I finally found?

[Steven Reed]

I got the cable when I purchased the Medistrom Pilot-24 battery setup for the Resmed Airmini. Now I see some places sell it separately. Try searching for “Output cable for Resmed Airmini”. This cable also works with the lightweight and cheaper Talentcell 24v battery. Here is the cable that you need:

https://www.cpapclub.com.au/~5456

[Letitia K]

I’m glad to see these ideas.  Trying to start backpacking again, and in the interim that I was out with knee troubles, I developed sleep apnea.  Don’t know why I never had it (or at least it didn’t bother me) before – I’m not overweight but I do have a lifelong enormous tongue.  For those of us who wake up feeling like crap without it, any theoretical cardiovascular arguments are moot.  I feel  pretty bad without it, and when the humidification broke I woke up with my posterior nose feeling as if sunburned.  I live in the desert, so maybe that wouldn’t be as bad elsewhere.  It’s disheartening looking into this.  The HumidX only works with full face masks, and I’m worried about the weight and power of adding humidification.  At least I’ve got some starting ideas.

[Author]

Posts