Closed Cell Foam Sleeping pads

[John “Jay” Menna]

I have managed to get pinhole leaks 2 air mattresses in the last two trips I have taken.  I guess I am just not capable of taking enough good care of the suckers.

Testing for a leak on trial is a major PITA– impossible in the desert when water is at a premium.  So the latter half the hike involves schlepping a worthless mattress home.

Looking into closed cell foam.  Anybody have any wisdom on what look for/ what to avoid here?

[David Thomas]

That 1/8″ CCF pad offered by Gossamer Gear ($16, 60-80 grams, R = 0.5) is handy to add a bit of warmth but more so protection for an inflatable pad.  And as a minimal fall-back if/when the inflatable fails.

I’ve always liked how the Thermarest Z-lite folds up and stores in my frameless packs giving them more structure and doing a great job protecting my back from pokey things.  Folding it 2 panels wide is just right for the width of my Go-Lite Jam 40 and close to right for my larger frameless packs.  And, unlike a roll-up pad, it folds flat, 2 or 3 panels wide, for use as a seat during the day (really nice on a ski trip).

If you just want to play with the concept on the next trip, $11 and a trip to Walmart will score you a cheap, roll-up blue CCF pad.  They also have a 23” x 71”x 10mm knock-off Z-Lite for $14.  Each state a weight of 0.7 pounds.

[Claiborne B]

Perhaps try a 1/8″ Foam Pad underneath your inflatable. Gossamer Gear has these available for less than $20. You’ll step down in comfort to go only with a closed cell foam pad for sleeping. But if you do go in that direction, try the accordion style like Thermarest Zlite or Nemo Switchback.

https://www.gossamergear.com/products/thinlight-foam-pad

 

[Michael Sirofchuck]

An excellent review of Z-Lite Sol vs the Nemo Switchback version.  The reviewer finds the Nemo version to be more comfortable.   That said, I have done a lot of backpacking with an inflatable pad in the desert and always put a polycro sheet underneath.  I often cowboy camp so I have the pad inside a Borah bivy.  No punctures.

https://www.cleverhiker.com/blog/therm-a-rest-z-lite-sol-vs-nemo-switchback-a-side-by-side-comparison

[Matt Dirksen]

Has anyone used the Exped Multimat Uno?

Even though it’s not light by BPL standards (9.7 ounces), it has an ASTM R value of 1.4, while only being 1/10″ thick!

(For any building professionals out there, that’s like having a 2×4 wall assembly with R-41.5 inside!)

By the looks of it, it appears quite durable and I’d think one might be able to fold it up pretty well. But I have no first-hand experience.

 

 

[David Thomas]

Matt: That does seem like a bizarrely high R value for 0.1″ thickness.  Does the ASTM standard give you credit for the air film on either side of the pad?  Or maybe they mis-stated the rating (i.e. lied).

In the near future, ALL product descriptions will be written by AI doing A/B testing on different wording.  Whatever sells more will become the new product description and its specifications.  It already happens with eBay sellers on all kinds of items and has long been true of battery banks and before that shop vacs (really, “5 peak horsepower” out of a 15-amp, 120 vac outlet?!?).

[Todd T]

…it has an ASTM R value of 1.4, while only being 1/10″ thick!

(For any building professionals out there, that’s like having a 2×4 wall assembly with R-41.5 inside!)

By my math, that would be R-49 in a 2×4 cavity (unless you’re accounting for the parallel stud path), but I don’t believe either number.  Color me from Missouri on that one.

[Brad W]

@cbrown2019 Jupiter uses this as his primary pad..I don’t recommend that.

 

[Rex Sanders]

Speaking of R-values …

Most widely-available closed-cell foam pads are lucky to run R 2, while some inflatable pads can go beyond R 6. And yes, an R-value difference of 1 unit can make a big difference in how warm you sleep at night.

If you were happy with the warmth of your pinhole-prone inflatable pad, make sure your new setup matches its R-value. Might require multiple pads.

Also, most CCF pads are much less cushy than any inflatable. For some people that doesn’t matter. For the rest of us, it’s the difference between almost no sleep and decent sleep.

Consider combining a foam pad on the bottom for puncture resistance (as suggested above), with an inflatable on top for comfort and enough warmth. R-values add up, so R 2 foam with an R 2 inflatable is roughly R 4.

— Rex

[Matt Dirksen]

“By my math, that would be R-49 in a 2×4 cavity”

Yeah, for some reason, I believe I had actually used a thickness of 3mm in the calculation, due to a review I read about the pad which had its thickness listed in metric.

And since I don’t own the pad, I honestly don’t have any idea how to verify the validity of any of it. The only “error” I can see is in its listed thickness on their website. (I mean, why would they “lie” about the ASTM R value?)

I do understand that the R value of market available aerogel can range between 10 and 30 per inch (depending on the product type), so I know there are materials out there that operate in that range, but I also get that other commercially available EVA foam pads have an R value closer to 5 per inch.

Thus my curiosity of any first-hand experience out there (to at least put a ruler up against the pad!)

:)

 

[Dave @ Oware]

Just wait till you get a cactus spine inside your inflatable pad and it pokes a new hole every time you inflate it.

[Rex Sanders]

Might consider a self-inflating pad, like the traditional Thermarest:
https://www.thermarest.com/products/sleeping-pads?prefn1=ID&prefv1=Self-Inflating

Others make self-inflating pads, too.

Select one with a tougher outer fabric (higher denier) for better puncture resistance. And if it does deflate, you’ll have a little more insulation and comfort than an air-mostly mat. If you are really worried about punctures, a thin CCF pad underneath would help.

And finding pinholes can be easier with fewer infuriating folds and crevices.

— Rex

[James R]

Try this as an underpad or emergency pad:

https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/1-4-foam-pad/

I’ve used the GG 1/8 inch and some 1/4 inch pads that I think I cut out of a hammock pad.  I’m not as ultralight as many of you on BPL, but for me the 1/8 inch main value is as an air mattress pad protector and as something dry or clean to sit/ lay on.  I much prefer the 1/4 inch thickness for virtually all applications despite the weight and bulk. They both have their place.

My main message is that MLD offers evazote pads in a better variety of sizes than GG so that they better fit under a pad (or body). They also generally seem to have in stock both 1/8 and 1/4 inch thicknesses.

 

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

I’m waiting for 2 oz needle proof fabric for $20 to go under my inflatable.  Until then Tyvek seems pretty puncture resistant. Polycro or plastic stuff has punctured through on me. (but my inflatable was protected – see below)

I currently am using the thinlite mat over Tyvek, or if I expect lots of sticks, roots, or rocks I use the cheapest, lightest, solid fold up matt under everything. The thinlite still goes with me to keep everything from sliding around.

Camping is in the forest wherever I can find a nice open spot, so often have little stubs of brush under me. ugh. Note everything I know is from all the folks that have posted before me.  ;-)

[Brad Rogers]

Thermarest Ridgerest.  It’s bulky and not the most comfortable pad in the world (but better than a Z-Lite) but it’s fairly light and indestructible.

[talagnu]

torso length zlite/switchback + full length 1/8th pad on top is fairly comfortable

[Alex H]

In the desert for sure and IMHO pretty much all the time the answer is a two pad system CCF on the bottom and something with air in it on top unless you are young and can get away with a few sections of a Zrest or something..

I am sorry but those that think a piece of tyvek or an 1/8″ thinlight will protect you from thorns you are deceiving yourselves.  I used a cut down Ridgerest under a Prolite XS (36″) for more than a decade without a leak.  Looking for more comfort (I am 64 now) I tried a Nemo Tensor Insulated, super comfortable, it lasted 10 nights before the first pinhole leak on top of a thinlight.  I am now testing out an Exped Flexmat Plus with the Prolite on top.  It might be the ticket even though it has increased my weight.

I wrote about the two pad system a dozen years ago.

[W I S N E R !]

A warm, robust, and comfortable combo I’ve been using for some time is a full length Zrest combined with a 3/4 Thermarest Prolite.

The Prolite in and of itself is pretty durable, but this combo has allowed me to sleep on some pretty rough stuff without even using a groundsheet. It’s my go-to on  colder weather hunting trips, where I find myself often inhabiting more spartan campsites. No, it’s not UL,  but I find the functionality worth it, especially having a large CCF sit pad for camp and sitting while glassing.

[Jeff McWilliams]

My wife and I sleep in a Tarptent Stratospire 2.  Because of the slippery silnylon floor, we’ve been using the GG 1/8″ thinlight for a couple of years now, first under NeoAir XLite pads and now under Nemo Tensor Insulated pads.  I also use a sheet of Polycryo plastic under the tent as an additional moisture/abrasion barrier.

We hiked Death Valley at the end of January with that set up, and then did a long weekend trip with our Grandson in August near where we live with no ill effects to the pads.  However, 2 weeks later we were in Dolly Sods, WV and my Nemo Tensor had a pinhole leak.  I actually managed to find the leak by submerging the pad by sections in the creek, and patched it with tenacious tape.

Last year, one of my fellow hikers got a leak in her NeoAir XLite while we were doing a section of the JMT.  When we camped up at Island Pass, I waded into one of the ponds/tarns/whatever and found the leak for her.

Fortunately, I’ve never had the “pleasure” of encountering serious thorns on the ground.  I can’t imagine how one deals with stuff like goat’s head thorns.  My guess is we’d be sticking strictly to CCF pads…  :-(

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

@Alex H  ” … those that think a piece of tyvek or an 1/8″ thinlight will protect you from thorns you are deceiving yourselves. ”

Agreed – in my case the sticks are blunt like soft baseball bats compared to the needle sharp thorns.  I hope someone lets me know when thin, thorn-proof, lightweight material can be had for $20. Aluminum and Titanium sheet are suboptimum.

 

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