Climashield APEX Pullover Hoodie

[Ito Jakuchu]

Like Mike was saying above I think the customisation is incredible. Very much like having your jacket made according to your own specs.

I just bought two puffies, one down, one synth before this whole thread started but would love to get one when it makes sense again.

One thing I would have questions about when going over the ordering process is what kind of weight of insulation to go with. What thickness are the relative Apex choices – and for understandable lack of temp ratings (individual warmth and activity being one factor), how do they compare to other (relatively known) synth or down garments.

I.e. is Apex 2.5 comparable to a Nano Puff / Atom LT? Or does Apex 3.6 come closer?

What if I want a DAS Parka like jacket, would Apex 5 be similar or less/more warm?

Examples of course, and I don’t think people would expect very precise answers, but since Apex is not as common in garments, I think it could be good to give people an idea of the temp ranges. Which would make it easier for them to pull the trigger and order.

The choices do look really tempting already.

[Mike M]

I had a Cumulus Apex jacket that was 67 grams/meter (equates to 2.1 oz/yard) and that jacket was on par with the Patagonia Nano Puff

[nunatak]

@ito jakuchu – you’re right, how do these weights stack up? We’re still working on formulating that conundrum in an easily digested form on the site.

[Richard Nisley]

[Robert Alexander]

Brilliant. Not close to the lightest down options but could be very much worth the penalty if the weather is foul. Nunatak offerings appear to beat the synthetic competition by a long shot. Not sure about what where things add up after the added features like hood and pockets, though, but it should still be one of the strongest products around. Kudos, @roamer. Thanks as always, @richard295.

[Ito Jakuchu]

Fantastic, a great service to the community.

[Hugh Webb]

Thanks Richard for your table showing clo and iclo ratings.

a couple of questions though.

i thought that iclo=bsa x clo

The clo value you list, for the lightest weight jacket, is 2.05 and iclo is 1.45.  This implies a bsa of 70%. The bsa for the warmer jackets is higher again (79%,85% respectively). However, I thought bsa covered by a jacket with a hood is only 52%.

am I missing something?

[Richard Nisley]

Hugh,

Iclo is the intrinsic (actual) insulation value of the material. Non-specific-garment-clo is the iclo + the boundary layer (.6). Garment clo multiplies the prior value x the body surface area (BSA). The camp chores thermo-neutral calculation uses the garment clo (BSA). In other words, a vest, a jacket, or a hoody provides different camp chores thermo neutral values although the areal insulation value is identical.

[Hugh Webb]

Thanks Richard, helpful as always.

quick follow up:

• are your thermo- neutral temperature estimates assuming a person is wearing any additional clothes – other than the parka itself? If so, what other clothing? I was looking at your famous met/ temperature graph (using “clo” (as listed above) x bsa (=.52 for a hoody)) and reading off the intersection with the camp chores line.  Doing this I couldn’t replicate the comfort ratings you list above but I’m guessing that’s because I’m making different assumptions about additional clothes
• A comment: amazing that manufacturers of Apex list clo/oz/yd2 (ie apex =.82 clo/oz/yd2) rather than iclo/oz/yd2 – ie the intrinsic insulation of the material itself. It makes it difficult for people trying to make calculations involving multiple layers given that the boundary layer (.6 clo) can only be counted once. I suspect this leads to a bit of double counting of the boundary layer in ratings of clothing ensembles.

[Richard Nisley]

Duplicate

[Richard Nisley]

Hugh,

My “Camp Chores Thermo Neutral ” model assumes 1 iclo of hiking clothing insulation in addition to the iclo (BSA reduced) for the garment type. Hiking clothes assumes socks/shoes, underwear, pants, shirt, and cap for 1 iclo. It assumes the average mix of activities is 1.75 MET. It assumes you are sheltered from the wind and so only 1 boundary layer (the outside of the garment) is added to the insulation total. Alternatively, the addition of a shell with a 1/2″ average gap, between it and the insulation, will provide the same temperature rating if you are not sheltered from the wind.

All synthetic insulation manufactures use clo/oz to define there insulation; a bigger  test number is easier to market. If you stack two layers of synthetic insulation you never get 2x the clo value. You get 2x the iclo value plus 1 boundary layer if you are sheltered from the wind.

[Hugh Webb]

Thanks Richard – very helpful info for cutting through the spin (from fabric manufacturers I mean). I also feel like I have a much better understanding of key distinctions b/w iclo, clo/oz/yd2, clo, and individual garment clo now.

[Mike M]

I received my jacket this week.  I pulled it out of the stuff sack and was surprised (pleasantly) how much this jacket lofted.  I actually thought that they may have mistakenly sent me a 3.6 oz jacket (I ordered a 2.5), I put it on the scale and at 10.9 oz it was spot on for a size Large.  I went w/ the Robic fabric and included the kangaroo pocket.

Fit and finish is great.  The hood fits well and is easily adjustable, ditto on the hem.  The zip is deep enough to make taking the garment on/off easy (as well as providing good venting).

 

 

I took the jacket with yesterday snowshoeing in the Rattlesnake Wilderness.  I stopped up high for lunch and very quickly got chilled (pretty wet from the effort up).  I pulled the jacket out and put it over my base layer and windshirt and was able to enjoy my lunch :)

A very worthwhile 10 oz addition to my pack.

[Daryl and Daryl]

Looks like I’m in the minority here but a full front zipper is essential for me.  I hate pulling things over my head and the opportunity for venting is much greater with a full front zipper.  I’d skip the pockets and lengthen the zipper.

[Brad Rogers]

I think Nunatak will add a full length zipper as a custom option.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Looks like I’m in the minority here but a full front zipper is essential for me.  I hate pulling things over my head and the opportunity for venting is much greater with a full front zipper.

+1

[William Kerber]

Looks like I’m in the minority here but a full front zipper is essential for me.  I hate pulling things over my head and the opportunity for venting is much greater with a full front zipper.

+2

I’m in a pretty mild climate, so a full zip is a must for me for venting as well. I do like the looks of that jacket and the fact that it’s climashield. I made a thru-hiker vest @ 4ozs and it goes everywhere with me.

 

[nunatak]

@mtwarden Glad you like it. Good luck in the Bob!

@lyrad1 & @woubeir I welcome custom work, apparently becoming a rarity in this industry. So just ask and the full zip is yours! As for a stock option? Not sure yet.

 

[Hoosier T]

A pullover hooded vest with a kangaroo pocket is an item I long for. But, I’ve priced them in down from cottage vendors and no way I’m paying $200+ for one. I would grab a synthetic one in a heartbeat if the price were reasonable.

[Mike M]

Jan- any more word on the Apex pants?  I could really use a pair for elk hunting and winter camping :)

 

Mike

[Brody Chapman]

I’d be interested in full zip pants as well!

[Mike M]

I think Jan is looking at ~ 20″ zips- should put it roughly at knee height, which should accommodate getting over almost any boot

[Brody Chapman]

I’m wanting a lightweight insulated pant for elk/deer/sheep hunts too. With a lightweight lining, longer zips would be better to avoid damage when trying get over bulky mountaineering boots.

[nunatak]

Here you go

[Brody Chapman]

Nicely done! I guess I better put my money where my mouth is and order a pair now..

[Author]

Posts