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By the Numbers: How does Tent Design and Materials Influence Cold-Weather Camping Comfort?


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable By the Numbers: How does Tent Design and Materials Influence Cold-Weather Camping Comfort?

Viewing 8 posts - 51 through 58 (of 58 total)
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  • #3818080
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Thin mints are tasty.  Chocolate on the outside with a white, sugary, minty inside.

    Sort of like oreos, but oreos are not very tasty.

    The Girl Scouts sell thin mints. There are other products similar

    #3818081
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
    #3818083
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    I would call those thick mints :)

    #3818084
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Fair enough.
    Very nice either way.

    Cheers

    #3818094
    Terran Terran
    BPL Member

    @terran

    #3819368
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    I made some crude measurements with probe type cooking thermometer.  If I would record continuously it would be more meaningful.  This is just a concept.

    I measured 5 cases:

    #1 – cowboy camping – it was clear but protected by trees – calm – air temp was 31.5F, surface of sleeping bag was 35.5.  The surface of the sleeping bag was 4F warmer than the air because of the surface layer of air right next to the sleeping bag.

    #2 – cowboy camping – clear – about 50% protected by trees – calm – air 47.7, surface 43.7.  The surface of the sleeping bag was 4F colder than the air because of radiative heat loss.

    #3 – tent (silpoly mid with open door) – cloudy – calm – air outside 32, air just above sleeping bag 38, surface 42.  The air inside the tent was 6F warmer than the outside air even though the tent door was wide open.  The surface of the sleeping bag was another 4F warmer because of the air layer.

    #4 – tent – clear about 50% protected by trees – windy – air outside 41.5, air inside 43, surface 44.7.  The air inside tent was 1.5F warmer than outside air and the surface was 1.7F warmer than the inside air.

    #5 – tent – clear about 50% protected – calm – air outside 33, air inside 40, surface 38.5.  The air inside the tent was 7F warmer than the outside air and the surface was 1.5F colder than the inside air (a little radiative heat loss happening).

    One over-all conclusion is if it’s calm and clear, if I sleep in the tent instead of cowboy camping, I can have the same comfort if it’s 10.5F colder.  The tent lowers the effective lower comfort rating of my sleeping bag by 10.5F.  In #2 the surface of my sleeping bag is 4F colder than the outside air.  In #5 the surface of my sleeping bag is 6.5F warmer than the outside air.

    Another over-all conclusion is that if I’m protected by trees or clouds, the tent adds 6F of warmth.  In #1 the surface of my sleeping bag is 4F warmer than the air.  In #3 the surface of my sleeping bag is 10F warmer than the outside air.   The tent doesn’t add as much warmth if it’s cloudy or protected by trees, as if it’s clear.

    Another conclusion is that when it’s windy, most of the advantage of the tent is “blown away”.  I didn’t have a night of windy cowboy camping so can’t compare. In #4 the surface of my sleeping bag is 3.2F warmer than outside air.

    Based on Stephen’s data, I think a DCF tent would not add as much warmth as a polyester or nylon tent. The inside air in the tent would be colder because of radiative heat loss because the DCF doesn’t absorb IR.  And the surface of the sleeping bag would be colder than the air inside the tent because of radiative heat loss.  Maybe 5F colder?  Maybe 10F colder?

    One could calculate how much extra down one would need to make up the less warmth, and compare the weight of that to the weight saved from using DCF.

    I was only in 50% clear places.  Ridges and trees blocked half of the clear night sky.  If I was on a mountain top or a wide plane I could get 100% clear and the temperature differences would be bigger.

    One could continuously measure the air temperature outside the tent, inside the tent, and surface of sleeping bag, and wind speed and get better data.

    If you know the temperature of the surface of the sleeping bag, then it’s just conduction down to your body.  It doesn’t matter if it’s clear, windy, or whatever.  (assuming the sleeping bag cover impedes wind enough).

     

    #3829554
    Bendrix B
    BPL Member

    @bendrix

    As a cranberry farmer who must protect crops from frost both spring and fall I can add that there is another factor which will affect your comfort significantly.  My measured temps between the upland and the depression where the cranberries live can be 15F or more on a clear, windless night.  Cold air pools in depressions.  To stay warmer, pay attention to terrain and do not pitch in a depression of any kind, even in wind.  A depression that affords protection from the wind is much colder than upland with wind.

    We know well that on cloudy nights, or with wind that prevents pooling, our crops are safer than clear calm nights.

    You may be surprised to learn that we protect crops from frost damage, which occurs at somewhat below 32F, by turning on the irrigation.  Water in the process of freezing never drops below 31F and so even with 1/4” of ice on the crop, if the irrigation is run until the earth warms and the ice melts, no damage will occur.

    But there is no helpful pitching advice from that fact.  :)

    #3829569
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    that is a really good point

    or, cold air can happen at a higher elevation and then flow down a valley.  If you sleep at the bottom of a valley it can be a lot colder.

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