Ask a Ranger Anything.

[James A]

Yes, I imagine it would be quite a nightmare if your ropes got tangled up and stuck on the cable!

[David Y]

Bear rope entanglement is SO common that nearly all bear cables used to have remnants of fouled ropes. You may still be able to see so some. Philmont started modifying all their bear cables so they can lowered to remove screwed-up ropes. Lowering the new bear cable require tools crew won’t have, only staff. This is just more evidence of Philmont constant endeavor to resolve problems.

Even back when Philmont issued the old BSA Patrol Kit 8-quart cook pot with the fry pan lid they also offered a 6-quart stainless steel cook set (much like if not the Chinook set) especially for smaller crews, I assume they still do.

The SS set was a better choice than the aluminum set. We are able to cook for a crew of 12 with just one SS 6-quart pot.

The new Ace Camp cook pot lid looks to be lighter than the old Patrol Kit fry pan pot lid. Regardless how heavy, any lid is better than no lid. Any lid will reduce boil time and fuel consumption. Fuel is heavier than any pot lid.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[David Y]

Bear rope entanglement is SO common that nearly all bear cables used to have remnants of fouled ropes. You may still be able to see so some. Philmont started modifying all their bear cables so they can lowered to remove screwed-up ropes. Lowering the new bear cable require tools crew won’t have, only staff. This is just more evidence of Philmont constant endeavor to resolve problems.

Even back when Philmont issued the old BSA Patrol Kit 8-quart cook pot with the fry pan lid they also offered a 6-quart stainless steel cook set (much like if not the Chinook set) especially for smaller crews, I assume they still do.

The SS set was a better choice than the aluminum set. We are able to cook for a crew of 12 with just one SS 6-quart pot.

The new Ace Camp cook pot lid looks to be lighter than the old Patrol Kit fry pan pot lid. Regardless how heavy, any lid is better than no lid. Any lid will reduce boil time and fuel consumption. Fuel is heavier than any pot lid.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Tim P]

I second David’s comment regarding a lid.  Evaporation is the best form of heat transfer.  That’s why sweating works so well.

We have a small crew of only 8 people.  Do we still need large pots or can we go smaller?

[David Y]

6-quart pots will be sufficiently large enough for 8 campers. Our crews of 12 get by just fine 6-quart pots.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[James A]

How much personal spending money do you recommend Scouts bring with them? The Guidebook to Adventure says the average spent is $100 at the trading posts.

Also, the Guidebook says $20-50 is enough for expenses on the trail. Is that per person? How much do people typically spend on the trail? What types of things do people buy?

[David Y]

At Camping Headquarters, one could spend a lot of money ($100+) in the Tooth of Time Trader on souvenir belts, buckles, T-shirts, etc. Adults have credit cards, but Scouts may need to take enough cash. Look on-line at ToTT items to get an idea of what is available and costs.

On the trail there are small trading posts at all commissary food pick-ups. Everyone may need $20+ icash in small bills for replacement items; lost water bottle or failed hydration bladder, Shoe Goop to repair a detached sole, mole skin, cold medicine and candy bars or Root Bear at one of the Staffed Camp cantinas.

Adults will need additional cash for fuel replacement. Adults may want to carry even more additional cash to cover Scouts that may run out of money, but not for candy bars. LOL.

[Jay L]

Dont know when they might allow/disallow using it, but I know that backcountry trading posts can “charge it” and you settle up during checkout back at CHQ.

Last trek I had a Scout blow out his boots on the way up Baldy.  We taped them together enough to make it up and back to Baldy Town for our food pick up.  The trading post there had boots, and in his size.  I signed the slip and took care of it at the end of the trek.

[David Y]

One wouldn’t expect to need to carry enough money on the rail to replace a pair of boots. It’s good Philmont has a means to deal with such issues.

We had a third adult whose solo tent failed but was able to get a replacement Philtent at the Baldy Town commissary.

Philmont provides a lot of support systems we don’t see until we need them.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Dennis P]

<span style=”display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff; color: #353c41; font-family: ‘Roboto’,’Helvetica Neue’,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;”>Our Crew will be staying at Whistle Punk during our upcoming trek.  I am unable to find much information on it.  Is there water near by? Activities? etc.  Any information would be appreciated. </span>

[Dennis P]

Let’s try that again, Our Crew will be staying at Whistle Punk during our upcoming trek.  I am unable to find much information on it.  Is there water near by, activities etc.? Any information would be appreciated.

[Phillip M]

Good Day,

Whistle Punk is a trail camp, in 2016 as I recall it was the last water stop before the dry camp at Comanche Peak. The website philtrek.com has more information.

Phillip Martin
Crew Advisor 721-H(alibut)

[Dennis P]

Thanks Phillip, I hadn’t seen that site before.

[Michael F]

I’m hoping a ranger can settle a question we have regarding cooking…

We were all set to bring a 8L aluminum pot and silnylon collapsible sink on our trek next month. Yesterday, however I was at my local council Scout store returning something when I began to chat with the person there who told me that they were on a 2017 PSR trek and they brought two collapsible Sea to Summit 4L pots instead. Their cooking method was to use two stoves (remote isobutane canister), heat water in the two, 4L pots, then rehydrate food in the pouches and then serve from there.

As a side note, we have three people on our trek who, for religious reasons, won’t eat pork and will be having separate meals anyway so not everyone will be eating out of the same large pot.

So long as the 4L pots are deep enough to submerge and sterilize our personal bowls and utensils, wouldn’t that be sufficient?

Having two collapsible pots are significantly more expensive and do not provide any weight savings (or penalty) versus a single 8L aluminum pot. I believe the advantages lie in the area of portability and potentially time savings boiling in two half-sized pots versus one large one.

Will rangers accept the “two pot” and “reconstitute in the bag” method proposed above?

Obviously, we don’t want to buy and bring two collapsible pots only to be told that be must use an 8L pot and follow their method exactly.

[Brad P]

We are planning to take 2 of these pots as crew gear.  I just ordered them as we didn’t have any 6 qt. pots in our shed, only 8 qt and ones smaller than 6 qt.

Boscovs 6qt stockpot

Would it be wise to put some of the ductwork insulation we use to make coozies and wrap the handles of the pot and lid for added burn protection?  The scouts will all have cotton bandanas, but for just a few grams, this could add some safety.

Would it make sense to make 2 bandannas be crew gear with the pots?

I know David’s crew goes with 1 pot, which really makes sense.  Can someone explain why Philmont wants 2 pots? Why wouldn’t you boil the correct amount of water for the amount of food, sanitize bowls, shut off gas, add food, wait, serve and then use the same pot for cleanup?  Why add food to the other pot and pour water into it?  We don’t have enough experience to confidently explain this to the ranger.

We’re using Fozzils Bowls.  I assume they’ll fit flat into the 6 qt. pot.  If not, they can be assembled, then dipped.

[Brad P]

Next question is lighters for scouts.  Our crew is all 14-15 year olds. Half lack the dexterity to use a Bic lighter.  I got lighters that use a button rather than the wheel to ignite the lighter.  Half still can’t operate them.

I’d prefer not to take the longer trigger type lighters, but those would be safer and easier.  It’s what we use for car camping stoves when the piezo igniters fail.

[Michael F]

So I called Philmont this week to ask about the Sea To Summit collapsable pots and was dissuaded by one of the chief rangers who explained the need for two pots this way…”We think personal utensils and bowls as well as wash pots all get cleaner in warm than cold water. Our process has you boil more water than necessary so that when you reconstitute dinner in the second pot you have leftover hot water in the original pot. After you’re done eating you can pour some of the now warm water from the pot you boiled water in into the bowl you made dinner in to clean it. Leave about 1L of water in the first pot and combine with cool water to use for washing personal gear.”

Our crew is going to attempt a hybrid method between Philmont’s way and David’s way. We’re brining a silnylon sink that weights 2.7oz (including stuff sack). Our plan is to bring a 8L pot and boil more water than we need but pour it off into the nylon sink. We’ll reconstitute dinner in the 8L pot and when done pour some of the water from the silnylon sink back into our first pot to wash it while saving a some in the sink to wash our personal gear.

When I explained the above method to the ranger he was cool with it although he did express some reservation about the safety of pouring very hot water back and forth probably one or two more times than Philmont’s way. In the end we’ll still adhere to eating as a patrol while also saving some weight.

[Michael F]

For a crew like yours I’d use piezo lighters. Our Kovea stoves came with them and it’s what our guys will use. We have an older crew (all are 16 and five out of the eight boys are Eagle) and their backup will be Bic lighters. In your case, I would assume at least someone will be bringing an electronic device like a phone as a GPS or for taking pictures. If so, they’re probably also bringing a USB battery. A USB battery opens up the possibility of using a USB lighter. Although the boys should have the dexterity to use waterproof matches as another option.

[David Y]

You should be doing 3 or 4 backpacking trips to sharpen your skills, lighten your pack, break in your boots and practice Philmont’s methods the year before your Philmont adventure. If you don’t you will wish you had.

We use our One-Pot cooking and clean-up method on all our troop backpacking trips, so our Scouts are proficient at it long before they go to Philmont.

During Ranger training on the trail, instead of the Ranger demonstrating their method,
our Scouts demonstrate ours so the Ranger can see and approve it. We don’t pour or transfer any hot water. And never have any objections.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Roger Caffin]

re Boscovs 6 qt pots
Just be aware that these are very big pots, and their stability on a small upright canister stove is questionable. If not placed dead centre they will be prone to tipping over.

Personally, I think putting pots this big on a canister stove is asking for trouble.

Cheers

[Brad P]

We use remote canister stoves for that reason.  Same as a white gas stove.

[Stephen Everson]

Question on ground cloths – under tent or inside tent?

See the following article regarding this subject

https://scoutmastercg.com/keep-your-camping-gear-dry/

What is the Philmont Ranger’s point of view?

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Stephen,
In reference to ground cloths, I think they are generally not needed if you take care in site selection so that you tent is not sitting in the flow of ground water during rain storms. This is easy to do at the Philmont backcountry campsites. At the more impacted staffed camps, you might have to pitch on a slight slope.your tent carefully.

In my experience, a ground cloth used under the tent does have some cosmetic function in preventing some dust and or mud attaching itself to the bottom of you tent. During my trek, we had so much rain, my tent was always wet on the outside despite the use of a polycro ground cloth and travelled on the outside of my tent.  And finally, my experience from car camping with my wife in a Sierra Nevada monsoon, if the rain water is really flowing across the ground, even placing the ground cloth inside your tent does not keep things dry.

[Bob Shuff]

According to the workshop it’s required to protect the Philmont tent from the hard use that a season of scouts will impact upon it.

[David Y]

Philmont expects you to use ground cloths / footprints under their tents to protect them from abrasion and punctures so they will last longer. A proper footprint is a few inches smaller all around so water running off the tent does not land on the footprint and run under and puddle under the tent floor and eventually soak through.

What you do with your tent is up to you. If you want to use a water barrier / groundcloths inside your tent it needs to be longer wider than your tent floor, so it wraps up the sides as a bathtub to keep you sleeping bag dry.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

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