Ask a Ranger Anything.

[Brad P]

Bruce, yes, I’m talking about the rubber walking tips.  They are worse than useless on trails, they’re dangerous.  You rely on your pole to have traction and it slips.  A lot.  I think they’re only for roads.

If you’re hiking on trails, anything to cover the tips would be just for when you’re traveling to the trail and want to protect your gear from getting poked.  The covers that come with some poles would fall into that category.  I think the people wearing out these tips in days probably got the ones just meant for use in transport.

The Philmont guide suggests using them and that should be removed based on my experience with them.

My tent needs trekking poles and we plan to use crew member trekking poles for our dining fly.  I did a hike with my son yesterday.  I realized after watching some YouTube videos I was using my poles in the wrong way. I was moving my pole with the leg on the same side.  Left pole forward as left leg moves forward.  It should be the opposite.  It took some time to retrain myself and I can see how it helps much better now.

I do agree that on some flat, even trails, the poles are not needed and I find myself not using them.  Trails around here aren’t flat and are typically rocky.

[Todd C]

@crwhit – very helpful so thank you!  I will start looking at how to make that case, while at the same time working to ensure I don’t need the leeway.

[Stephen Everson]

Question – How many tent pegs do the Philmont issued MSR tents need?  And how many recommended for the Philmont issued dining fly?  Thank you very much

[David Y]

2019 Guidebook to Adventure

Pages 13 & 14

“Tents
“The Thunder Ridge”…tent requires 6-8 stakes,. A 5’ x 7’ waterproof ground cloth must be used under each tent… are not provided with the Philmont tents. (foot print – 4’6” x 7’4”)”

Page 24

“Tent Stakes/ per person – 5, Philmont Thunder Ridge tents – 8, Philmont dining fly – 8”

A tent’s ground cloth should be slightly smaller than the tent’s actual footprint so rain (dew) run-off won’t land on its outer edge and run under and soak through the tent’s floor. If too large you can fold under any extra.

If you are planning to use Philmont’s tents I would suggest you take a ground cloth slightly smaller (2 inches per side) than their posted size of 4’6” x 7’4”.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Stephen Everson]

Thanks for the posting.  I did not think each scout needed 10 stakes each on the trek.

[Roger Caffin]

I did not think each scout needed 10 stakes each on the trek.
That would depend on how many vampires you run into?
:-)

Cheers

[Brad P]

Shoot.  I thought it was 10 steaks.  Guess I can cancel the dry ice order.

[James A]

I am thinking of using these Polycryo plastic sheets for ground cloths. The cost is $2.91 for a sheet that’s 84″ x 120″. I figure with the footprint of the Philtents being 54″ x 88″, that I can cut one of those sheets down to two ground cloths, each measuring 50″ x 84″.

Thoughts on this? I figured a couple less inches on each side so we don’t collect rain.The sheets that are 84″ wide would be nice, as we won’t have to do cutting along the length of the ground cloths. I hope these dimensions will work. Not sure if Philmont would require the ground cloths to have identical dimensions as the footprints of the Philtents.

Anyway, these window sealant kits are way cheaper than what Gossamer Gear sells and are supposed to be the same exact material. I watched a couple videos on YouTube of thru-hikers who have used polycryo for hundreds or thousands of miles!

[Brad P]

I am thinking of using these Polycryo plastic sheets for ground cloths. The cost is $2.91 for a sheet that’s 84″ x 120″. I figure with the footprint of the Philtents being 54″ x 88″, that I can cut one of those sheets down to two ground cloths, each measuring 50″ x 84″.

I just bought those to do exactly that for our crew.

 

[David Y]

If each camper carried 10 steaks, you would be eating very good every night, but you would need a better stove (grill). 😊

If we could only get by for a couple of nights, there are enough lost stakes in campsites to supply our needs. 😊

Part of every morning’s duties is to police your campsite just before leaving. Apparently, some crews are not very diligent at this.

[Brad P]

Our previous scoutmaster used to hide a $5 bill before police line to get them to pay attention.

I had to make our troop run the police line 3 times at our last campout.

[James A]

Any idea how long we should expect it to take to boil 6 quarts of water with a remote canister stove? We have a couple Optimus Vega stoves.

Also wondering how much fuel to buy at Tooth of Time Traders when we arrive. The 2019 Philmont menus are out and it looks like we have 2 cook breakfasts (biscuits/gravy and breakfast scramble) and 10 cook dinners.

We have itinerary 18, with staffed camps at Carson Meadows, Fish Camp, Apache Springs, Sawmill, Cimarroncito, and Clarks Fork. Food pickups are at Apache Springs and Sawmill. Will canisters be available at any of those locations?

[David Y]

James A

According to REI:

Optimus Vega Remote Canister Stove,
“10,200 BTU output can boil 1 liter of water in as little as 3 minutes, depending on climate, altitude and other factors, average boil time is 4-½ minutes per liter.”

At Philmont water you collect for cooking  will generally be cold stream or well water and may require longer than average boil time.

Assuming the average boil time can simply be multiplied by the number of liters, 4-½ x 6 = 27 minutes. Each Optimus canister has about 60 minutes of burn time so you will only get two dinners per canister. Then if you boil water for dish washing, breakfasts, coffee or anything else that requires more fuel.

Be smart and conserve, only boil enough water for the food to be cooked and wash dishes in cold water. And always use your windscreen and a pot lid to reduce boil time and fuel consumption.

Check the Swap Boxes on the porches of all Staffed Camps to replace breakfasts that require cooking for items that do not.

According to the Guidebook to Adventure replacement fuel canisters are available at the Base Camp Trading Post (ToTT) and at backcountry commissaries where you pick up food.

Check out the Tooth of Time Trader website for more information about using your stove at Philmont:
http://www.toothoftimetraders.com/fuel-at-philmont/230/dept

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[James A]

Be smart and conserve, only boil enough water for the food to be cooked and wash dishes in cold water. And always use your windscreen and a pot lid to reduce boil time and fuel consumption.

Check the Swap Boxes on the porches of all Staffed Camps to replace breakfasts that require cooking for items that do not.

Thank you, David. These are both great suggestions. I was thinking it would be a drag to have to cook any breakfasts at all. Great idea to just swap them out.

We’ll see how the crew feels about washing with cold water. May get some pushback on that, but it’s fine with me, as we’ll be sanitizing everything before we eat anyway. If we only heat the water for the meal, with a crew of 11, I’m guessing that’s only boiling 3-4 quarts of water each night.

 

[David Y]

Cooking for 11 is the same as cooking for 12 as Philmont dinners (and all their meals) are packaged for two campers. Usually 3 -1/2 to 4 quarts.

Philmont issues Campsuds for washing dishes and it “works well in hot or cold water”.

We don’t stay in camp long enough to cook breakfast or coffee. We are up an hour before dawn and on the trail within 30 minutes to hike and be in our next camp before the heat of the day. We spend our days doing program, side hikes, laundry or taking siestas, not hiking in the sun.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[James A]

Any good recommendations for tent stakes for the Philtents and dining fly?

I was considering MSR Mini Groundhog stakes, but they run $2.50 apiece. There are a number of cheaper knockoffs on Amazon, but I have no idea if they would hold up to the hard-packed Philmont soil conditions.

I have in my notes that the fly needs 10 stakes and the Philtents 8 apiece. And probably bring a couple spare in case of Scout attrition. :)

[Tim P]

I like the aluminum stakes sold at Walmart.  They are only $0.88 each.  They look like the MSR stakes.  I’m not sure about the alloy or hardening, so I cannot say for sure if they are similar or not.

[James A]

Thanks, Tim. Looks like you’re talking about these stakes from Coughlan.

Does anybody know where to find some cheap and light stake bags?

[robert G]

Going the end of June…. Contemplating what temperature of a sleeping bag to have. I have a 20-degree bag but I sleep pretty hot and would love to knock off lbs if I could. Thoughts…

[David Y]

James A

7” aluminum Sheppard’s or J-Hook stakes like Coghlan’s 8046, REI Co-op’s Aluminum Hook or Kelty No-Bendium II tent stakes are all you need at Philmont.

Anything bigger or multi sided is over-kill and are far too difficult to get into the hard-packed dirt at campsite or would require you carry a mallet to drive them in. Beating on them with rocks ends up with smashed fingers.

The rounded J-Hook top helps prevent cutting into your palm as you twist while pushing (drilling) them into the hard-packed dirt.

You may be better off to make your own stake bags. Get a yard of rip-stop nylon from your local fabric store and stitch up some on your sewing machine.

[Jay L]

My first time as adviser the gear list said 10 stakes per person.  I did the math on 10 stakes per person x 12 people and could not bring myself to spend $1.00, or even $0.50 each for tent stakes.  I bought a case of 250 aluminum gutter spikes (7 inches) for something around $50.

They worked reasonably well – they are soft so they did bend but they were easy to straighten.  They were inexpensive enough that we didnt worry about losing them.
…Lessons Learned: Turns out we didnt really need 10 per person.  I see now that the list says 5 per person.  The better way is the obvious way – know how many you need for the tents and fly you will use then take a few extra.
…Lessons Learned: We didnt lose any stakes, and we found several that other crews had left behind.
…Lessons Learned: Aluminum gutter nails are a reasonable choice for an inexpensive tent stake.
…Lessons Learned: Take a 1″ PVC “T” or end cap as a pushing tool
Agree with @moonshine about making your own stake bags (or skip the bag and use a rubber band).  I make ours out of old tents that have been retired.  Also make personal smellables bags from the old tents.

[Bruce Tolley]

RE: :low cost tent peg bags (A Scout is thrifty)

I cut up Tyvek mailer envelops ( that are free from the post office or re-used from mail I receive) plus tyvek tape from Amazon to build tent peg bags.

I always bring an assortment of types of pegs, Most of the time the shepherd hooks work for tents and shelters. There are times when I use use a nail peg to make the hole for the shepherd hook. For the Philmont dinning fly, which puts more force on the guy lines, I would bring some MSR ground hogs or their clones.  But the very cheapest pegs like the ones they sold at the Philmont commissary will bend and break.

[David Y]

Do the math for your crew size.

The number of tent stakes per camper remains constant, 3 or 4 for each camper’s half.

The number of dining fly stakes per crew remains constant, “8” (it used to be 12).

So, 5 or 6 stakes per camper ought to satisfy all your stake needs.

Others have been happy using the gutter nails and I like the 1″ PVC “T” to push them in.

[Brad P]

For the dining fly, I’d think it would be simpler to have the crew member with the dining fly also carry all of the dining fly’s stakes.

Split the tent pieces in 2 but have all the stakes for each tent with 1 person, not both.

My son is taking a sil Duomid with the inner attached.  It doesn’t make sense to have to attach it every time, so they won’t be splitting that.  I suspect he and his tentmate will make it fair when splitting up crew gear.

Everyone else (except me) will be using Philtents and the troop has enough MSR groundhogs.  We have our own dining fly and groundhogs for it.  I’ve told the crew they’re free to get their own lighter 2 person tent, just run it by me first so I can make sure it’s appropriate.  Nobody has chosen to do that.

[David Y]

Brad P

I was only speaking figuratively, just as Philmont does, as to how many stakes each crew should bring, not carry, based on crew size and if you are bringing your own tent or using Philmont’s.

We too have all the stakes for a tent or dining fly in one stake bag with that gear item.

We too bring our own ultra-light sil-nylon dining fly in its bag with ten 7” aluminum J-Hook stakes in their bag.

We too divide up and share tent weight, typically one camper carries the tent body and poles and the other carries the tent fly, foot print and stakes, about 50/50.

Those bringing their own tents shouldn’t need extra stake or bags for their tents as most tents come with their own stakes and in a bag, just some for the dining fly.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

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