A Word Of Caution Regarding Luke's Ultralite

[Michael K]

I had been so tempted to go against my better judgement and take the risk by trying to contact Luke in order to buy his Argon wind shell once he posted about being back up and running.  However, that is obviously not happening at this point.  I really want that windshell since it really seems unique in today’s market in terms of its perfect breathability and weight.  My Squamish performs essentially perfectly, but I’d like something a bit lighter.

[Joe S]

Just a warning that most of this post isn’t about LUL, but rather massdrop.

I don’t know about in the ultralight community, but in the mechanical keyboard, fountain pen, and audiophile communities massdrop has had some notable screwups.  Of the ones that I know of the mistakes/issues/controversies in the mechanical keyboard world have been by far the worse, with products shipping months later than promised, mistakes in shipping and qc (i.e. people get two of what the ordered, so someone else gets shorted, shipping the wrong or different than advertised product, shipping two lefthand versions of something instead of a right and a left, shipping products that they obviously did not do qc on and are subpar), issues between massdrop and designers not agreeing on what each other can do based off misunderstanding of the contract between them, people not getting their order because massdrop didn’t order enough to cover their shipping mistakes or usps/ups/fedex losing it, having bad and/or slow customer service, products being cheaper or only slightly more expensive but ship a lot quicker from other sites, and forgetting to get the necessary government certification and having that drop delay because of that, even though there were people who commented and emailed them about that potential issue back when the drop started.  Back when I still kept up with the mechanical keyboard community it had gotten bad enough that people were boycotting massdrop.

Because of all of this I would not be suprised if they are selling “LUL” shorts and are either unaware of the situation or are sourcing them from somewhere else.

I have purchased quite a few things from massdrop, but since my last order about 9 months ago I have not, nor do I plan on in the future unless they have something that is only available through them and I really want, or they improve on these issues and start functioning like how a normal business should.  None of my orders have had issues, but personally I don’t really like some of the things they have done and how they have treated their customers.

Hopefully someone found this useful, I hate to write such a negative post but I feel like people should be aware of what’s going on with massdrop in other communities.

[Carl S]

Joe, appreciate this comment, but the problem with Luke existed long before Massdrop. Many dozens or hundreds of customers including myself lost money last year through direct orders placed through Luke’s website.

[David Thomas]

Continuing on with the MassDrop thread drift: All my orders (eventually) showed up as ordered.  But some have been weeks later than expected.  So if you’ve GOT to have it (before your thru-hike, your international trip, etc) I’d order months in advance or from somewhere else.  That said, they’ve been better in the last 1-2 years than they were 3-4 years ago.

Also, whenever something seems like a great deal – check on Amazon.  Sometimes a $100 item is shipping weeks from now on MassDrop for $75 plus shipping(!!) instead being $80 with free shipping immediately from Amazon.  Sometimes, MassDrop beats the “street price” by a lot, but other times, they are only matching it.

Their comment section is above average.  Far above what Amazon comments usually are.  The guys who join the “Fidget Spinner Community” are REALLY into fidget spinners (like we’re really into UL gear), because there’s often good info, warnings, feedback on sizing, and suggestions about better sources in the comments.  I like how the comments thread for, say, LUL’s laundry shorts, includes all previous drops, so you see feedback from people who already have theirs, how long it took to actually ship, etc.

[Richie S]

I’ve had no issues with Massdrop and have bought a lot of stuff from there, including some of the very expensive stuff. Sure, some can take a long time to arrive and one or two have been cancelled, but it’s not the end of the world and nothing has been lost.

I bought one of Luke’s down jackets there several years ago. It’s a lovely bit of kit. Shame to see things go this way.

[Iago Vazquez]

Brief thread drift to Massdrop. I have ordered 13 items through Massdrop. 2 of those were cancelled by them. Disappointing, but not the end of the world. 2 other items I had issues with and Massdrop responded promptly and issued a refund after providing pictures. So I am satisfied with their customer service. One was a t-shirt with a low quality print job on it and the other was a screw-top flashlight that came with a push button instead.

As to price, like anywhere else, do your homework. No they do not always provide the lowest price.

[Joe S]

Joe, appreciate this comment, but the problem with Luke existed long before Massdrop. Many dozens or hundreds of customers including myself lost money last year through direct orders placed through Luke’s website.

Yeah, I was aware of that, I remember back when this thread started when I was still lurking here before I had an account. It just I don’t really have anything to say about LUL since I have never bought anything from him (although I did almost buy a rain jacket from him a couple of years ago) other than hopefully he gets a handle on his issues and all of his customers get what they want.

 

Not to further beat a dead horse but I think that most of the issues with massdrop from the mechanical keyboard community is that a lot of the items are done as group buys (drops in massdrop terms).  So if something goes wrong with it and you don’t get your item there isn’t really any other way to get it other than to buy it used, which normally will cost a decent amount more than if you had got it from the original group buy.  There is always the potential for there to be another group buy, but that probably won’t happen for another couple of years, if at all.  With ultralight gear most of the stuff on massdrop you can buy other places, get very similar alternatives, have someone custom make it for you, or myog, whereas for mechanical keyboards there might be some other keycaps that are sorta similar to what you wanted, but are a different shade of color or a different shape than what you wanted, but since a lot of the hobby seems like it is focused on the aesthetics of it a lot of people care about those rather small differences.

And in massdrops defense there were a number of times where there were groupbuys done by other people where the people running it took the money and then never delivered a product or gave a refund, and if you look at massdrops overall failure rate it is still pretty low, otherwise people wouldn’t still use them.

[Bill in Roswell]

I had kind of forgotten about Luke’s until I saw the Massdrop last week.

It’s a sad, unfortunate affair. I had to deal with two close friends that became oxy addicts. One recovered after 3 years of treatment (and continued support groups), the other chose to end it. Addicts become awesome actors, often believing what they are saying at the time. Their actions create great stress for family members and it is not unusual for a family member to lose some mental stability from dealing with an addict. Not to make any excuses – I think the judicial system should determine such things (as imperfect as it can sometimes be).

If I had ordered something from LUL, I would be as mad as any of you. And it makes me wonder, in what kind of standing is LUL with material suppliers? Is that why Mark keeps taking money – grasping at straws? Their website needs to be shut down until all issues are settled, legal system or not.

[jason a]

Its a bummer a few more people got taken and its erie how all the stories are the same where Luke is lucid and promises whatever it takes to get your money. Again, his dad Mark is the one that is the most reprehensible because he is either enabling his own kids death or he is hooked as well.

There was another poster that had some info on the legal and enforcement process. I filed a complaint with the Delaware County (OH) Sheriff’s Department. That is who contacted Luke’s dad Mark and Mark claimed he did not know where Luke was. I don’t want to give the detectives name but there are three officers involved so if you make a complaint, I know it will get to the correct detective. Contact Info:

Delaware County Sheriff’s Office
149 N Sandusky St, 2nd Floor
Delaware, Ohio 43015
740.833.2869
740.833.2887 FAX

Or go here to file online: http://www.delawarecountysheriff.com/

You will have to file a complaint in your jurisdiction first and pass the case number on. But it would be super helpful if others would file complaints. The Sheriff’s office did pass this on to the Ohio Attorney General and they have begun an investigation. Again, the more people that file a complaint the better chance we have of stopping this.

Here is a link directly to the Ohio Attorney General Fraud Division:

There contact information is : http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Individuals-and-Families/Consumers/Laws-Protecting-Consumers

Or, you can call and report the fraud to 1-800-282-0515

Its really a shame that Mark Stegner is doing this to innocent people, his son and his family but maybe we can step up and do his job for him.

[Ken Larson]

Jason….Have you thought of posting the above information on:

Do not order from Luke’s Ultralight from Ultralight

[BlackHatGuy]

“I don’t want to give the detectives name but there are three officers involved so if you make a complaint, I know it will get to the correct detective.”

I dont understand the reluctance to give the detective’s name. That’s one of the reason’s they’re at the sheriff’s office, they give out their cards all the time. Getting it directly to the right detective helps them as well.

[Dena Kelley]

Might be worth filing complaints with the BBB also. It won’t help you (unless Luke actually decides to clean up his act and decides to make good to have negative BBB reviews removed) but might help someone else not get taken since some people do check the BBB when deciding whether or not to do business with a company.

 

[David Thomas]

Update:  My Luke’s Ultralite Thru-Hiker Laundry Shorts were delivered by MassDrop last week while I was on a backpacking trip.  They are well made, VERY light, and wouldn’t leave much to the imagination if wet.

So the collected wisdom/experience continues to be that ordering LUL gear through MassDrop works but that ordering single/custom items directly from LUL can be problematic, to say the least.

[Diane Pinkers]

LUL is also on Outdoortrailgear.com, along with Dutchware and Kat’s hats, Goosefeet Gear and Zpacks.  I put a comment on the site referencing this thread and detailing that he is not a good business, so that hopefully no one will order with him through that portal either.

[Matthew / BPL]

I noticed that Dutchware starting selling shirts that look a LOT like Luke’s laundry shorts. I forgot that the two brands were affiliated

[Roger Caffin]

Might one guess that they are both/all imported from China?

Cheers

[Matthew / BPL]

Dutchware offers them in ten or twelve different digital prints from RSBTR. I doubt they are made in China. Also Dutch does custom orders that get shipped from Pennsylvania with a turnaround time measured in hours.

Oh and his site says the Struve for made in USA products/local products. https://dutchwaregear.com/about-us/

[Diane Pinkers]

I don’t think they are affiliated, as much as they use the same portal. Small retailers trying to get better web presence.

[Hoosier T]

They are not affiliated other than Luke uses Dutch’s Argon fabrics. Also, the prints are not from RSBTR; Dutch now has his own printing capabilities

[Jim C]

I’ve never ordered anything from Luke, via his own site, Massdrop, or anywhere else, so perhaps I shouldn’t stick my nose into this, but I’m gonna do it anyway.

If Luke is trying to get back on his feet, and is successfully delivering products through Massdrop and customers are happy, shouldn’t we be glad for him and his customers? Doesn’t he, like anybody else, deserve a shot at redemption?

The best chance of customers with outstanding orders to get their orders fulfilled or refunded comes if Luke is able to run a thriving business. If his business gets shamed out of existence, nobody is going to win.

I don’t know Luke, his business, or his products, but I wish him the best.

[Matthew / BPL]

I’d like Luke to be successful. I like his products a lot. I almost purchased something from him recently but was reluctant to pull the trigger. I hope we see some success stories here soon.

[Carl S]

Jim,

I would definitely agree with that, which is why I reached out to Luke and his father (see my emails and responses in this string).

However, when they completely ignore hundreds of orders made over these past years now, with no refund, communication or explanation to those who placed those orders in good faith, and then start marketing product to new customers, I don’t see how that can pass without criticism.

Let Luke, his dad and family be happy and successful. But  he at least needs to explain to the myriads whom he let down why he did so, before pursuing new business avenues. The next round of victims may include you, and you may feel differently then.

karukun

 

[M B]

Do dey have a “made in china tag”?

 

Its a customs requirement all items be labelled with country of origin.

 

 

[David Thomas]

The LUL Laundry Shorts that MassDrop delivered last week have no “Made in . . .” tag on them.  There’s a logo tag with mountains and “LUKESULTRALITE.COM” on the outside, and a plastic clip (like to hold keys) on the inside, but nothing else (including no pockets).

There was a LUL business card inside the envelope with URL, email, and phone number on it saying, “Need Gear you can’t find?  We can make it!”

[Diane Pinkers]

I specifically ordered from Luke, despite this thread, in December, because he said he was back and ready to make good. He used to do good work, and I wanted to give him a chance. I had had PayPal refund me for a previous order once, so I figured I could get my money back if he reneged. Nope, he emailed me to set up the order, was happy to communicate then, afterwards,  no response to emails. So he gets no second chances at redemption, because he’s already blown it up. If he were an upstanding person,  he’d say I can’t do custom work anymore, I’m going to concentrate on this product over here, and there would be explanations on his website and no further orders taken. That ain’t happening.

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