Scrambling Boot recommendation needed

[Lucas Meserve]

I agree completely with Eric & James: The terrain shown in the photo looks like standard class three terrain and I could easily believe that a belay might be impossible/useless/unreasonable in this situation.

As for which footwear, Ryan Jordan wrote an excellent article on the merits of different types of shoes for scrambling. His comments were focused on navigating talus but they apply equally well to low angle choss.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/techniques-for-talus-jordan.html

I have traveled terrain like that in trainers, approach shoes, and mountaineering boots. If there is significant snow, my first choice would actually be a mid-hight waterproof approach shoe like:

http://www.mammut.ch/en/productDetail/303001940_v_0128_85/Redburn-Mid-GTX-Men.html

http://www.scarpa.com/tech-ascent-gtx

http://fiveten.com/products/footwear-detail/14795-camp-four-mid-black-solid-grey

http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwear/climbingapproach/ (Any)

Look for a good fit and something stiff/sticky enough to edge in.

Good luck with your course!

[Muddles]

Wawa-wiwa this is an interesting thread.

I've done some scrambling in the Canadian Rockies and think your Asolo Experts would be ideal for your course. They seem to have a combination climbing/hiking sole (sometimes called a "trekking" sole), look like they'll take a semi-automatic crampon, and seem generally light. Plus they're orange, which is one of the climbier-looking colours (/sarcasm).

If they give you blisters maybe they don't fit quite right? You can do a lot to adjust the fit by lacing them differently, like skipping an eyelet or locking-off the bottom.

[Anonymous]

Telling you what didn't work for me:
A few years back, outdoor gear lab recommended Vasque Breeze GTX boots for 3 season use. They described them as lower durability, but stickier rubber for better grip on wet rock. They were very accurate and lasted me 3 years on class 1-2 terrain. 1 week in class 3 though, and I ripped off several large portions of the tread/sole, and I ripped/shredded the upper leather. I'd feel comfortable walking in crmapons in these but would not feel comfortable climbing class 3 in crampons because of increased risk of stepping on my own feet (tops of these boots have cloth breathing sections). My next rugged boot, will have a much harder/stiff sole for increased durability, I'll use lightweight trail runners for the class 1 stuff.

I assume you already checked out outdoor gear lab?
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Mountaineering-Boot-Reviews/ratings?sort_field=1

Their lightest recommendation was this:
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Mountaineering-Boot-Reviews/ratings?sort_field=1
Note it's rated the highest for rock climbing/hiking but lowest for ice climbing. Probably due to the flexibility of the sole. For your class, this might serve the best, but depending on your branching interest after the class, you might want a better all around boot. Since I have different goals for my boot, I'm not sure I'd use this one.

Trailrunners on Mount Blanc:
I read the guy who just set the speed record used trail runners. He also left his running partner on top of the mountain with a broken leg though while racing for his time. Guys who had to pull his buddy off the mountain, seemed to take issue with the use of trail runners in that environment.

[Dave G]

Craig
I assume you're talking about Kilian's FKT. Yes his running partner fell down a crevasse and injured (didn't break) his leg. Kilian's helped him out made sure he was ok before continuing.
The partner walked back to town accompanied by the skier who was photographing the run. Mountain rescue weren't involved, so I don't know who you think was so disapproving.

http://www.chamonix.net/english/news/new-mont-blanc-record-kilian-jornet

Dave

[David Chenault]

All politics aside, I'd second the recommendation of the Boulder X Mid. It's a good compromise between fairly hikeable and stiff enough for extended strap-on crampon use. It's not stuff enough for front pointing, or as comfortable as a proper trail shoe, but is a decent compromise.

[Anonymous]

Dave Grey,

Good correction here. He's had a couple close calls and I may have blurred them together here. I'm going to provide my source quotes so that it's a little more accurate than my first description. I have NOT researched the incidents farther than the outside magazine article I read casually two months ago. Admittedly Killian is doing cool stuff, but I thought the SAR concerns on his risk taking were worth forwarding.

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/running/trail-running/FKT-Up-Kilian-Jornet.html
http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/kilian-jornet-and-emelie-forsberg-rescued-from-frendo-spur
http://www.theskichannel.com/news/20120618/world-champion-ski-mountaineer-stephane-brosse-suffers-fatal-fall-on-mont-blanc/

Frendo Spur incident 2013
"They called for help, and a pissed-off rescue team rappelled down and got them to safety. “I’m very angry when I see the continued rise of sneakers despite our requests,” the rescue chief fumed. “Mountain practice must be undertaken with adequate equipment.”

Mont Blanc 2012
"Jornet was grateful for the help, but he has made a habit of ignoring such warnings. In 2012, he was inches away from his idol—Stéphane Brosse, the legendary French ski mountaineer—when Brosse fell to his death as the pair attempted a speed crossing of the Mont Blanc massif."

Mont Blanc 2013
"Jornet bounced back from that tragedy by going even higher, lighter, and faster. He recruited another Frenchman, Mathéo Jacquemoud, for a speed attempt up and down Mont Blanc in the summer of 2013, but this time his partner suffered minor injuries when he fell into a small crevasse on the descent. Unable to keep the pace, Jacquemoud told Jornet to race on alone"

To be clear, I think these guys are incredible athletes and I understand that incredible athletes are always often going to push the limits. I definately defer to to these guys huge experience base. I'm posting the SAR teams concerns because I think they warrant consideration for any weekend warrior like myself on the BPL forums who might be modeling their set up after the extreme setups these guys were using for speed trials.

[Tad Englund]

Thanks for all the input from everyone. This has been an interesting read.

DaveC. I have been looking at the Boulder on the internet (nobody carries it here in Seattle that I can find). How does the fit work for you compared to a wildcat/raptor (same size or do you go up or down)? The shoe last is different and I'm trying not to purchase two pair just to send one back.

[Will Elliott]

The Scarpa Zen has a really firm heel area that won't deform under the straps. It also has sticky rubber, a tough leather outer, and an over the toe rand. I wear a pair with gaiters, which solve the over-the-ankle issue. They are very tough, supportive, and agile.

[David Chenault]

I like Sportiva shoes, and have owned a bunch. Never the Raptor or Wildcat (too much drop), but I'm currently digging the Bushido, which fit me well. I sized my Boulder Mids down a half size (44.5 versus my usual 45) for better performance on rock, and wished I had not. They work fine as is, but would be better hikers with a bit more toe room, with little technical performance lost. Not a shoe for wide fit, but not super narrow.

[Tad Englund]

Dave, thanks on the sizing down I was leaning that direction given rOg's response above, but was worried about the hiking issue and toe loss over the long hikes in.

[Jeff Jeff]

Tad, I have those some Asolos. I love 'em! Sadly, they no longer make them.

If your foot is like mine, then the La Sportiva Trango Cube is what you want. It's very soft for a mountaineering boot.

With that said, I often do class 3 in trail runners. I only take the mountaineering boots for snow or class 4.

As for those photos, roping up on that rock would be a joke and completely unnecessary. Going up that snow slope is approach shoes would suck, but you could manage it for a short distance.

[Tad Englund]

Jeff, thanks for the information. I just pulled the trigger on the BoulderX mids earlier today (online). i'm interested in how they fit.
I only made a cursory look at the Trango cube but the color was way too much so I didn't get within ten feet of them, maybe I should have at least tried them on, they have some here locally.
Are they that much softer then the Asolo's? if so I will definitely try them.
Tad

[Overshot]

I started a similar thread before I stumbled upon this.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=101227

Anyone with any comments of the La Sportiva Boulder mid vs the Hyper mid? I will be using a mix of micro spikes, crampons, and snowshoes for winter travel. I don't consider myself with "wide" feet, but do not want blisters after a 17 mile day either.

Thanks!

[Jeff Jeff]

Yes, the Trango Cube is much softer than the Asolo Expert GV. The Seattle REI has them to try on. I stopped caring about color for climbing and skiing footwear a long time ago.

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