UL ideas that Died

[Lizz Roe]

I get the feeling that there was and maybe is a divide over the use of shaped and flat tarps (USA) and tarp tents, and the use of single skin tents or solo bivi (UK). I have spent lots of time trying to get my tent weight down, and then happened on this site and low and behold my tent weight is more than halved! I'm in the UK and do talk to gear nuts a lot in shops and on hillsides and in pubs. So, the U.S. decided to go with Cuben and sil well before it caught on in the UK.

Fleece is also something that seems to have been a big deal in the UK but not in the US, we also still have lots of people in wool and tweed, corduroy and moleskin, whereas that seems very unlikely in the US. But the US really does down and cottage enterprises making specific bits of gear, and we don't so much hear.

So some things took off in the US and some in the UK and some things didn't. Granted there are weather differences, temperature differences and hiking sensibilities – in the UK you are almost never really that far from some human habitation, even if you like to think so in some dense forest in Scotland or up a deserted path in Wales.

So, some gear did and some didn't, some fabrics or materials did or didnt, and some companies or types of company did or didnt, and I do wonder if it's a clear cut as the geographic divide I've just painted, views?

[Nick Gatel]

I don't think the ideas really die, just the materials change.

How about my 1.75 oz canteen stove (solid fuel, alcohol, or wood)? I used this in the early 70's. My pot was an 8 ounce canteen cup with a 20 ounce capacity.

Or a 70's era Air-Lift Mattress at 11 ounces? 20" X 42" with 9 individual air tubes in a nylon cover. Mine is in the garage somewhere.

We used foam pads, the same ones are still in use.

Been using a tarp for decades. Still use one at times. My tarps were (and are) big enough to use without a bivy. Also used a poncho tarp in 70's.

My 80's Chouinard Pyramid at under 3lbs with dedicated pole and stakes is still in use.

Frameless packs were around in the 70's. McHale made a living putting frames in them because frameless sucked. I remember seeing rucksacks in the backcountry that didn't have hip belts. The shoulder straps didn't have padding either. I have two Kelty external packs that have unpadded hip belts.

I can load up my Kelty D4 with my old gear that will keep me warm, safe and comfortable and have a base weight under 10lbs. Is that ultralight? If so, I was UL in the 70's. We didn't carry unnecessary weight like phones, MP3 players, cameras, watches, PLBs, filters, trekking poles, and other nonsense.

Jardine didn't invent UL backpacking. He popularized boutique backpacking, where the hiker stopped every 3-5 days to buy food. People were going UL in the 70's and 80's and probably long before that.

What I think has really changed is most people are unwilling to backpack for 10-14 days without a resupply. They don't mind leaving the wilderness to go into trail towns and get food.

[Charles Grier]

The Sierra club published a book about 1953 titled "Going Light With Backpack and Burro". It made a case for light packs for wilderness trail hiking. Actually, the only thing that has changed regarding light packs and trail hiking since then is materials and, perhaps, people's mindset. As Nick noted, lightweight backpacking has been going on long before Ray Jardine claimed it for his own.

I solo hiked the JMT as a teenager in 1954, without resupply: eg. I carried all my food for the trip from Yosemite Valley. I was on half rations for the last half of the trip: poor food planing. But, my gear weighed a bit under 15 pounds. My pack was a WW-II German army, Bergans-style rucksack, my shelter/raingear was a GI surplus poncho. My sleeping bag was the inner bag from a surplus Arctic bag. I cooked over wood fires using a 303 tin can with a wire bail. I slept on top of the clothes I wasn't wearing for sleeping. My clothes were cotton and wool. I didn't feel that I was doing anything unusual either. A lot of other hikers were similarly equipped. The people hauling big loads were going fishing and setting up base camps, not trying to cover miles. I wouldn't be able to repeat that trip now; stoves and bear cans are new requirements.

It was only when the baby boomers started backpacking that I started seeing people trying to carry heavy loads over long distances. By then, backpacking had become a consumer sport. But, with consumerism also came lighter gear for those who chose to use it. I have again hiked the JMT twice in the last six years. My base weight on both trips weighed a bit under 15 pounds including my bear can. But, I was much more comfortable even hauling a bear can and stove along. Sure, progress has been made but still, the notion of not carrying more than needed is nothing new.

[John S.]

https://archive.org/details/goinglightwithba002640mbp

[BlackHatGuy]

[J-L]

My dad asked about my backpacking gear recently and wondered why it was so heavy (this surprised me!). I question his memory some, but he claims he routinely went out for a week carrying 20lbs total starting. For several years in the early 70s, he said he would stop working in the summer and spend almost the entire time backpacking in the Sierras.

He carried:

An external frame pack (claims it weighed about 24 oz)
A 0 degree down bag (3 lbs)
A foam pad (1 lb)
A tube tent (1 lb – often shared with someone else)
Sierra cup (?)
Nylon windbreaker (?)
Extra socks (?)
Sierra Club book (?)

So approx 7.5-8.5 lb base weight. No idea how accurate his remembered weights are.

For food, he carried cereal, nuts, and freeze dried dinners. For hot water, he cooked over a fire. He carried no water and dipped his Sierra cup in a stream when he was thirsty (no filter, no chemicals, nothing). If he was cold, he went to bed or wrapped his bag around himself. If it rained, he wore his nylon windbreaker or pitched his tube tent. If there were bugs, he moved camp somewhere else. No headlamp. No first aid kit.

He makes it sound so simple. Obviously, his style wouldn't work everywhere (no bear line or can, for example) and is probably best suited for dry, Sierra summers with frequent water access. But it made me wonder about what I'm packing.

[Nick Gatel]

John,

My son's kit is a lot heavier than mine too :)

Most of those externals were over 3lbs. However there were department store packs that had plain webbing for shoulder straps and hip belts, so 2 lbs or so is possible.

I doubt 0* bag at 3lbs. Down was probably around 500 fill, but it is possible.

Yeah, tube tents were extremely light… under a pound.

Some of the foam pads were well under a pound.

A Sierra cup is 3 ounces.

[Nick Gatel]

Great post, Charles!

[J-L]

Nick, I doubt some of his gear weights too :) He specifically remembers his pack being a Kelty, so I would guess it was really 3-5 lbs. Who knows about his sleeping bag.

[Nick Gatel]

My Kelty D4 with the web belt is a hair under 3 lbs. With the padded wrap around belt and the steel quick release buckle it is 3 lbs 9 oz.

Point is that many people had base weights under 20 lbs and some under 10. Colin Fletcher helped make backpacking popular and people bought every piece of gear he wrote about.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

An external frame pack (claims it weighed about 24 oz)
A 0 degree down bag (3 lbs)
A foam pad (1 lb)
A tube tent (1 lb – often shared with someone else)
Sierra cup (?)
Nylon windbreaker (?)
Extra socks (?)
Sierra Club book (?)

Hard to believe these are all the items he had. Warm jacket? Rain gear? Water bottle? Map? Compass? Something to start fires?

[J-L]

No warm jacket or rain gear. I don't think he could afford a down jacket at the time or saw the need for one. And he said it rarely ever rained, so didn't bother carrying a poncho. No water bottle, just a sierra cup.

He always hiked with a group, so I assume little things like map, compass, matches, etc was split between them.

Edit: another UL idea that seems to have died is wearing your sleeping bag/quilt around camp.

[Dave @ Oware]

From the packrat papers 1972

12 lb pack
Sierra Nevada Mtn weekend

frameless pack 21 ounces
sleeping bag 37 ounces
2×4' foam pad 8 ounces
8×8' 2mm plastic tarp and cord (used like poncho if rain) 12 oz
flashlight 4 oz
maps 6 oz
camera 20 oz
misc. (first aid pencil paper insect rep. toothbrush tp) 8 oz
down shirt 22 oz
windbreaker 8 oz
wind pants 5 oz
spare socks 3 oz
towel 3 oz
rectangular loaf pan and handle 6 oz
cup and spoon 4 oz
water bag/pillow 2.5 gallon 2 oz
food

[Mobile Calculator]

[…]

[John G]

I still have my 1974 Kelty frame pack.

It weighs 3 pounds and has a padded hipbelt and shoulder straps. The are just a layer of 5/8" CCF inside a 500 denier poly canvas tube with a 2" webbing tail and buckle. The shoulder straps are medium width, the hip belt is only 4.5" at its widest point and not cone shaped or anything fancy. The back panel is just a 12" wide mesh sleeve around the frame. It doesn't feel ultra cushy when you put it on like modern packs – but there is NO soreness even after several days packing 35 lb loads.

The pack body is 400 denier nylon pack cloth with a zippered 8x10x2" pocket on the front and a long lid flap with a flat "map pocket" on the front. That pack was used by 3 different people for approximatley 15 years of monthly Boy Scout weekend backpacking and canoe trips — and only has 2 small spots worn through the fabric. I'm not sure why the "modern" external frame packs feel the need to use 1000 denier ballistics cloth or include 8 pockets or a sleeping bad compartment zipper…

It's too bad that no one makes simple lightweight frame packs any more. A new version that was narrower so it didn't restrict arm swing while walking, and was less tall so it didn't get hung up on branches on overgrown trails would probably sell really well :)

[Russell Hann]

I do think there is definitely a cultural difference between the US and UK when it comes to outdoor pursuits. For starters i think there is much more of a culture of lightweight backpacking in America, in part due to the necessity to go light when on long trips, far from civilisation, which is far easier in a country as HUGE as america and so sparsely populated (in most places). As you say, you are rarely ever that far from a village/hamlet/house in the UK. Further more as most peoples trips to the hills in the UK are day trips immediate comfort tends to trump longer term practicalities- (not sure thats explaining it well)- for example, on a day trip wearing heavy leather boots means dry feet compared to trail shoes, however on a long trip the trail shoes shine through as the more comfortable choice (I still regularly get looks and comments about wearing trainers in the hills, despite never once having thought "i need boots here" be it trekking in New Zealand, Europe or the US.) We also have the Toff shooting set here- my whole outfit is probably lighter than one of those tweed jackets.
There are differences in the environment as well which i think are important- in forest there is considerably less wind than on an exposed heather moorland. I used to tarp but am much happier having moved back to tents (albeit single skin 'tarp-tents')

As you say things are changing over here- but very slowly i would say. Far fewer cottage companies here and you only have to walk into a high street outdoor shop/read Trail to see that lightweight is still not a common mindset when heading outdoors. People are very often genuinely surprised (almost to the point of not believing me) when i say i was camping somewhere the previous night- "so where is your stuff now, still up there?" "no, it's in my bag" "hmmmm, it must be very small". And i am by no means as 'ultralight' as many people on here.

Of course the main thing in all of this is to be out there enjoying our incredibly short time on a pretty amazing planet.

[David Thomas]

+1 on a classic Kelty frame pack. I bought one, new, about 10 years ago, because there are some things it just does better – haul 35-45* pounds and a fair bit of volume on a hot day, for instance. So now I've got one packed with a basic kit in CA and another in my stable of packs here in AK.

*(When you backpack with young kids, the parents carry more stuff. When you backpack with young kids and a pregnant wife, Dad carries even more).

Heliarc weld and stitch it in China. Use a moderate nylon clothe as you note. Seems you could be under 3 pounds, have gobs of room, and the convenience of numerous outside pockets at a nice price point.

But what if you did a titanium or carbon-fiber/foam-core frame of the same dimensions and a Cuben pack bag to match? People could transition one piece at a time and anyone with a standard-width pack frame could be in that market.

[Luke Schmidt]

"It's too bad that no one makes simple lightweight frame packs any more. A new version that was narrower so it didn't restrict arm swing while walking, and was less tall so it didn't get hung up on branches on overgrown trails would probably sell really well :)"

John check out the Seek Outside Unaweep/Evolution Packs, they seem to come pretty close. I tried one and I'm a fan now.

[Nick Gatel]

When Jardine invented lightweight backpacking…

:)

people jumped on the "revolutionary" Jardine era band wagon, and most of them were looking at getting below 20 lbs base weight.

About 2 years ago I did a couple trips with my old Keltys. One with the D4, and one with the Serac. For each trip I dug out the gear I had used on a typical long trip, not a trip of 4 days or less. The D4 trip was with my 70's stuff, and the Serac trip with my 80's stuff.

Until 7 or 8 years ago the D4 was my go to pack, and the Serac was mostly for desert trips when I needed to carry several days worth of water. Keep in mind that my typical gear lists were often a couple pounds lighter than these two trips. From 1971 – 2008, most of my trips had a base weight around 15 pounds. But we never calculated BW. We always weighed things the old fashioned way… put on the fully loaded pack and stepped on a scale. Take off the pack and re-weigh. It was rare for my total pack weight to exceed 30 or 35 lbs on a trip of a week or more, unless I was in the desert with 2 or 3 gallons of water in my pack.

I still use the Keltys once in a while, just because they are fun. In 2008 I turned 58 and started to slow down a bit. That is when I joined BPL and started working on getting my long-trip base weights below 10 lbs, which was actually quite easy to do. SUL was fairly easy to do for 3-season trips of 4 days or less. But I soon abandoned frameless packs and went to internals (two McHales) and still am always under 10 lbs BW on 3 season trips. The reason I was so willing to go back to a heavier pack is because frames (external or internal) are just plain more comfortable for me when the total weight is above 12 or 15 pounds. The internals are easier to hike with when dealing with brush, boulders, etc. However, the externals are much easier for me to stay organized and efficient day after day. My last big trip with an external was about 15 years ago when I walked from Palm Springs to Lake Mead and back, mostly through open desert; a trip that was probably close to 600 miles. Base was about 15 lbs.

70's Kelty D4 Kit

80's Kelty Serac Kit

Scroll down each and you can see the detailed gear lists with weights.

[Sunny Waller]

I started backpacking in 1972 when I was a 5' teenaged girl that weighed 100lbs. I did not weigh my pack but it was not very heavy. I had a Kelty backpack and my shelter was a sheet of plastic. My kitchen was a lightweight mess kit-I cooked over a fire. I had a foam pad and a Coleman sleeping bag. I had a plastic canteen and a poncho for rain gear. I hiked in blue jeans and hiking boots. I brought 1 pair of cutoff shorts, 1 long sleeve shirt, 1 short sleeve shirt and a sweatshirt. The gear I was most excited about then was the tube tent and zip lock baggies. I had a wonderful time.

[Valerie E]

Nick — you rock! Those links to your '70s and '80s nostalgia trips are awesome — thank you for sharing. :^D

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