Winter Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): Ultralight Winter Snowcave Camping

[Ryan Jordan]

Companion forum thread to:

Winter Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): Ultralight Winter Snowcave Camping

[Gary Dunckel]

That update is interesting, Ryan, as it does indeed reflect the improvement in the products now available vs. 2004. This is timely, as our local Boulder Lightpackers meet-up group will have winter gear as a topic of discussion sometime this winter.

One thing–in your gear list you mentioned an inverted canister setup (vs. white gas), and then you chose the Windboiler, which is not an inverted canister stove. I assume that you meant either an inverted canister stove OR the Windboiler.

I hope you will post your experience with the Windboiler after you encounter teperatures of 0*-10* F. A year ago I did some cold weather stove testing, and the MSR 1.0 L. Reactor didn't do well at all at 10-15* F. Maybe they've improved things somehow with the new Windboiler burner technology?

[Stuart .]

Interesting update, Ryan, showing the proliferation of lighter weight or higher performing gear over the last decade. Three comments:

(1) Any experience with Hunersdorf water bottles? I understand they are easier to handle with gloves and withstand boiling water better than Nalgenes.

(2) Wot no sleeping pad / mat? Is this just for a snow hole situation? I'd have thought that even a 1/8" CCF pad would help with conductive heat transfer to the snow.

(3) Bloody hell those Dead Bird gloves are expensive! What makes them so dang good to justify the price?

[Bob Gross]

The author could use an editor.

–B.G.–

[Eric Blumensaadt]

This is a good list that I agree with in the main and one that makes me re-thinkmy own inter gear list.

I may sound like a broken record, having posted several times on BPL about DWR down. But once again I'll say that winter camping without DWR treated down like Down Tek or Dridown is omitting gear that could, at the least, make camp life and trail life warmer.

And at best avoid serious cold exposure problems from compromised down garments.

[Stephen M]

Oh, Eric.

[Ken Thompson]

"I'll say that winter camping without DWR treated down like Down Tek or Dridown is omitting gear that could, at the least, make camp life and trail life warmer. "

Yeah, all those long term tests we hear about, not. Let's disregard the previous decades data that shows down works without it.

[Mike Henrick]

I think you should double check some of your changes, like the synthetic sleeping bag to down quilt doesn't show a weight change.

Otherwise excellent article. I'm considering making the jump from single layer insulated boots to trail runners and the 40 below overboots. This helps!

[Mike M]

Thanks for posting the new list!

few observations:

personally I wouldn't venture into the mountains w/o a real shovel- several to chose from right at 16 oz, a 10 oz hit I'll gladly take over the Claw

I don't think a R .5 is a substitute for a wind shirt, not to mention it's no longer made-bring a windshirt!- you'll wear it almost all the time

a substitute for a layer that is nice on the move (under a windshirt or on it's own) is the Cap 4 hoody- I've been using this as a base layer (vs a mid-layer) in the winter and it's great

for a trench shelter, I'd consider packing a light nylon tarp to stretch over the top- makes construction easier and prevents a lot of leaking from the "roof"

a prefer a waterproof bivy (eVENT) so I don't have to rely on a water resistant shell on my bag, not to mention the bivy adds warmth and would allow for a slightly lighter bag, also a great piece of emergency kit if you can't dig a shelter

[Sam Haraldson]

Are there other trolls on BPL or is Bob Gross the only one?

In serious response however I have to disagree with you, Mike. I can rarely hike with a windshirt and find that my even my R1 is almost too much of a layer when I'm actively hiking. I've never put on the .5 however so maybe that would change my mind.

[Bob Gross]

"Are there other trolls on BPL or is Bob Gross the only one?"

Sam, I made a positive suggestion. No trolling allowed.

–B.G.–

[W I S N E R !]

Glad to see the lightweight GTX boot paired with a 40 Below overboot combo here. I'm looking to adopt the same thing this year.
For others that use this system…
I'm thinking of including a light event gaiter as well. In the winter condition I hike in it can get very mixed and sloppy; snowshoes are not always used. I figure I could easily switch between the snowshoes with overboots when it's deep or just wear the boots and gaiters when it's mixed.
Thoughts?

[Andrew F]

Craig, I can't speak for the overboots but I'm in and out of my snowshoes all the time. I wear GTX boots with gaiters and it works perfectly. My gaiters aren't waterproof (just nylon with a light PU coating) and I haven't had any problems with getting wet – if I'm trudging through snow, even slushy stuff, I've stayed dry. The only time my feet get wet is in lots of powder when snow comes up between the gaiter/boot junction – my boots aren't very tall or this would be less of a problem.

[Travis B.]

Craig,

I'd recommend getting the short forty below overboot. That way, you can wear just the boots and gaiters and if you need to put the overboots on you can add the gaiters on top of the overboots as well. Lighter than carrying the forty below overboots with built in gaiters as well as your normal gaiters.

I'm testing this system out in the Yukon this winter (using Salomon GTX Ultra trail runners) but it's been so warm that I haven't even had to wear the overboots yet.

Cheers…

[Rick Horne]

I haven't spent the time to research, so this could be a dumb question, but how does the WindBoiler differ from the Jetboil? They at least look very similar.

[Greg Mihalik]

Look Here

There are several versions of "JetBoil" stoves.

Also, – backpackinglight.com windboiler – in google, and select MoreTools/AnyTime/LastMonth to cover most of the bases.

[Rick Horne]

Thanks

[peter vacco]

well, here we are today, preparing the terrifying number of 250k topos for next spring's effort up north, and what comes along.. but a new gear guide.
hooray !

i am right about where Ryan was a decade ago (but heavier. of course). looking forward to the 'ol whisperlite (vs a bushbuddy in the wind), and all such as that.
that guide is a lot to ponder. i don't know so much that i am ready to jump into with both feets. need a tent for sure. there's seldom enough snow, and stuff has to dry out on a long trip. will prob go with the old foamy underneath my t-rest. not trusting a non-foam t-rest for weeks on end and no replacing a hole'd one.
got a 315 mile section on one bag of food somewhere along the line, and that means a big heap of food, which equates to a bigger and heavier pack.
and so it goes …

will certainly research the gloves and overboots recommendation.

thanks for your efforts,
v.

[Scott Nelson]

I'm surprised that Ryan wears a baselayer top, Hardshell Jacket, and a puffy jacket. Seems to me I'd be cold at some points with only a baselayer and hardshell. The Down Jacket would be too warm to hike in. What happened to the polypro mesh shirt and some sort of midlayer like a fleece, softshell, or thin synthetic? Am I missing something?

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Exactly Scott,
Ryan, some questions:
1-you hike in a R0.5 fleece top. That offers no resistance to wind. Any time there is even a mild breeze, it will start to get mighty cold one it gets below 15f or so. Donning the shell doesn't seem like a good option, considering the amount of condensation you'd get in there at low temps and high effort.

2-Second question: sleep clothes. I see no sleeping socks listed, and with an non-breathable overboot, your thin day time socks would be very wet by evening.
Are your insulated pants long enough to cover your feet, or what do you do?

3- why a waterproof jacket but no waterproof pants? If you are not expecting wet precip, why the waterproof she'll instead of a windshirt?

[Ethan A.]

Ryan, thank you for the winter gear update. One question – why the Patagonia DAS synthetic insulation overpants instead of down? I've worn the older version of the DAS Pants in Polarguard, and they were helpful, but I only threw them on over softshell pants after being active in camp, or if very cold, at a rest stop – not while active.

Wouldn't you want to dig the snow cave without the insulation pants, and then throw them on when done? And in that case, why not down?

[Ethan A.]

Also Ryan, do you wear anything for traction under the overboots when not wearing your snowshoes in camp? Looking for a good traction solution to wear under the 40 Below TR Energy that won't tear up the soles.

[Jing Yan]

Thanks for your updating. it's very interesting to see how the technology move on and how it impacts our gears.

To me, it's interesting to see how much weight lose in each section. So I did a recalculation on each parts, but it looks like there is something wrong in your list. Here is a comment on your weight calculation.

Total Base weight in pack: New(2014):10.83 lbs Old(2004):13.47 lbs.

I checked the weight of North Twin, it should be 3.5 lbs, which is 56 oz, instead of 23 oz in your list. This means your calculation on the bottom for old base weight is right, should be 15.53. I don't know how you got 11.41 for the new base weight. Anyway, there is a misleading on the weight loss of sleeping system.

Based on my new calculation, there is 4.7 lbs loss, instead of 4.1 lbs during the 10 years for the base weight. For sleeping system a huge 2.9 lbs loss, for clothes 1.34 lbs loss, while for pack 0.17 gains. Although this could be special case, we still can see a huge development on our sleeping system. For packing, there should be a larger loss.

To make this conclusion more solid, I wonder if anyone have their old and new gear list and share with us to see how things change during the last 10 years on the ultralight backpacking.

[Drew Smith]

Good article, but you left me confused on one point. I presume the roof of the snow cave is made from green branches, which would need to be cut or sawn. But there is no tool in your checklist that could do this. Is my presumption mistaken, or are you using an ultraspork for this task?

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