UL winter cook kit

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Bob,

I'm seriously all-a-twitter about your graphing heat conductivity of various pot metals (ti, aluminum and stainless as starters).

Dan,
I wish I could find an aluminum 3 cup bowl-shaped pot to compare test against my 3 cup regular pot.

[Dan Yeruski]

Eric, I had good results using an aluminum bowl in comparison to a flat bottom pot of the same capacity. I would never be able to convince the backpacking world to use bowls instead of pots LOL.

BPL member Connie Dodson (ConnieD) at one point in time switched to a bowl to heat her water and cook in. She indicated it was more efficient.

In France they use bowls without handles to drink their morning coffee/hot chocolate and eat their French bread with Hershey's chocolate. I was stationed in France and when in France did the same as they did ;)

Aaron recently showed us his excellent results using a bowl and 7 grams of esbit in this set-up(photo used without permission):)

[Aaron Sorensen]

I wish it sat down a little further.
It was just what was left over from the cutting I did to it.

[Bob Gross]

Dan, I use a Snow Peak titanium bowl like in Aaron's photo except that I use a stainless steel bail wire. That metal handle looks good though. I wonder what kind of metal it is. It looks to be about 0.6" wide and less than 0.1" thick.

Just so that nobody jumps to the wrong ideas… the Snow Peak bowl weighs 1.8 ounces, not the 1.6 ounces that seems to be mentioned in lots of advertising. It is pretty strong, though. I think that I would have to jump on it or something to get it to deform. So, I use that as my protective transport storage for my flimsy plastic bowl that I eat and drink from.

–B.G.–

[Dan Yeruski]

Bob, what caused you to switch over to using a bowl?

[Bob Gross]

Do you know of many water boiling vessels that weigh less for that much volume?

As has been stated, the very rounded shape of that bowl makes it very strong for its weight. For a lid, I have one that I made out of carbon fiber sheet about the thickness of a sheet of paper. I also have one made out of three layers of aluminum foil pressed together. The foil folds up better.

The other water boiler vessel that I was using thirty years ago is an aluminum water ladle with a long aluminum handle. It has a capacity of 16 ounces. The long handle is good for a wood campfire situation, but I don't do that much anymore.

–B.G.–

[Dan Yeruski]

This one has 5 cup capacity and weighs 1.5 ounce. Packs flat. For wood fires only :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlZ8soLn7CA

another added that weighs 1 ounce

Pot weighs 1oz and has a liquid capacity of 2.75 cups Lid is included. Has 2 additional ridgelines that strengthen the wall of the pot. Has a flat bottom for maximum stability.
Pot has ridge lines at the 1 cup and 2 cup mark.

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/conquistador-flat-bottom-kit.php

[Bob Gross]

Is that good for 100,000 miles?

It appears that you are still looking for that hand model.

–B.G.–

[Dan Yeruski]

100,000 and then some…

I later added a good size grommet to one corner and was able to lift it easily to pour. It was just for freezer bag cooking.

[Bob Moulder]

I did a couple of burns using a Starlyte (alcohol, the version with built-in pot support) to compare my Toaks 1350ml Ti and the only similar, cheap aluminum vessel I could find, a 1.5 quart IMUSA grease container from WalMart.

I don't want to repeat the whole litany of test protocols, but suffice to say I did my best to make it as equitable as possible. The one difference that might've skewed the results the most is the disparity in pot base diameters; the Toaks base is 5-5/8" across while the IMUSA is 4-3/4". The IMUSA aluminum was also thicker.

So without further yakking, here is the graph:

Obviously they track pretty closely. I did a couple of other 3-cup tests comparing the IMUSA with an Evernew 0.8L teapot because its base is very similar in diameter. I'll try to work on that graph later. Maybe a better comparison.

Test Rig showing IMUSA

[Bob Moulder]

Boiled 3 cups (limit for Evernew teapot). The base diameters for these are very similar.

For boiling water, truly not enough difference to matter. I'm sticking with Ti, the clear winner for weight/durability.

The Contenders…………

[Dan Yeruski]

Nice to be able to do testing :-)

Give us your best guess at how long the Imusa would last with normal backpacking usage, a lifetime????

[Bob Moulder]

Depends on the user and frequency of use… hard to say. Some folks are very hard on equipment and can destroy items in one season while other people can make the same gear last a very long time. Due to the nature of UL gear, most people here probably fall into the latter category. I have some old Open Country Al pots (2- and 4-quart) that are about 25 years old and still in good shape. Not UL for sure, and it's likely I will never use them again. Used for melting large amounts of snow for 4-8 people, using an XGK.

I would venture a guess that an Al pot with the same dimensions and weight as my Toaks 1350 would not be very durable.

But my motivation for doing the boil tests and graphs was to see if the notion is correct that the higher conductivity of Al makes it more efficient than Ti for boiling water. I've seen enough to convince myself that it does not. If it offered a distinct fuel efficiency advantage I'd jump on that bandwagon pronto, even if an Al pot had be be replaced every season or 2. Turns out that in fact the performance is practically identical.

Of course, I'm using the Jetboil for the 4th (as in "winter") season. It's Al and comparatively heavy, but it's now my go-to for melting snow because the HX advantage is clear regards to fuel efficiency, and it melts snow quickly. Alcohol and Esbit just aren't practical for that job.

[Dan Yeruski]

I'll take aluminum over Ti any day :-) I get faster boils with it. 10 and 12 centimeter Imusa mugs are popular.

For melting snow, the Companion Burner is nice with wood burning stoves like the Bushbuddy.

[Bob Moulder]

Based on my boil tests, I would say that if you're getting faster boils with your Al pots it's more than likely due to factors other than pot material. :^)

I had read quite a few such claims but googled the crap out of it and didn't find anything definitive. Lots of talk about thermal conductivity and anecdotes, but no graphs. Maybe I'm just a bad googler.

I like graphs made from good data because they give a clear picture of what is actually going on. I did my best to collect the numbers fairly and I am confident that anyone else who does the same will come up with the same results… or otherwise tell me what I did wrong.

This is not to "diss" aluminum. I am putting together a couple of UL kits for friends (which is why I ordered those 2 IMUSA lids from you, and some 10cm Imusa mugs from Amazon) just to demonstrate that they are an inexpensive and totally viable UL option.

[Dan Yeruski]

The photo of your pots makes me think the same amount of fuel heated a lot more aluminum than the Ti. The Imusa gives a lot more for your buck. Has more capacity and large handle, plus you get the strainer that can be used to poach fish and eggs ;)

[Bob Moulder]

The only thing I would advise is to have a bandana handy when you grab it.

I figured that out the hard way! :^o

[Dan Yeruski]

Apply carbon felt to it. It's really a good way to insulate. I may get one of those Imusa grease pots today just for the heck of it. Yah, like I need another pot ;)

[Bob Moulder]

The photo of your pots makes me think the same amount of fuel heated a lot more aluminum than the Ti.

With the ambient temperature being fairly warm at 80°F I don't think it was a huge factor, but you are correct about the additional material/volume of the aluminum pot possibly affecting the results.

I've ordered a couple of Al pots that are much closer in volume and dimensions to the Ti pot and will take another crack at it using these, a Minitrangia Sauce Pan (0.8l) and an Open Country 3-cup hard anodized pot.

I'll start a new thread about this test because it's ranging rather far off-topic for this thread.

[jimmer ultralight]

Both of those podts are good ones, especially the Open Country HA pthree cup..

I have used one just about every day for the last 18 months on many stove setups. Its a useful little pot. Its volume is just about identical to an MSR Titan kettle @ 850ml
If the heat source distance and flame diameter are set right, the 5" diameter bottom of that pot makes for very fast and efficient heating.

Also, the alloy Open Country uses and the surface finish is MILES ahead if the chinese made IMUSA stuff which are crudely made by comparison.

[Bob Moulder]

Jimmer, Glad to hear those are good choices… took quite a bit of searching online to make sure the dimensions met the specs I was aiming for.

Actually, all things being equal performance-wise, the Open Country pot looks to be an ideal size for many people, and a good alternative for those who don't want to pay the premium for titanium. At about $15 it's ~1/3 to 1/4 the cost of Ti and it does appear to be a quality piece of kit.

[jimmer ultralight]

Bob,

Yep, three cups is pretty convenent for most UL meals..Enough for two cups of liquid plus the dried food and a little head room for the boil.

An interesting fact about the 3 cup pott you probably already know about is that the pot basically is the old Boy Scout Alumnium mess kit kettle without the bail..So, its got a lot of good camping cred right there.

Couple that with the fact that the OC pots are just about the ONLY backpacking cookware actually made in the USA, and it sort of classic American UL cookpot pot..

Just a guess on my part, but it appears that Eric B. really likes his…:)

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Where are you finding the Open Country 3 cup pot? Great pot, but I don't see it for sale. It is not listed on the Open Country site.

[Bob Moulder]

Jon, I stumbled across it on the Trail Designs website.

Likewise I did not see it on OC's website… also thought it odd.

edit: Here's another.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Funny. Click on the link, put it into your cart and you end up at Trail Designs. Maybe they have a monopoly on them.

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