UL winter cook kit

[John Higgins]

i made a mistake last winter and had my water bottle freeze solid and was using a lot more fuel. elevation,temperature,type of snow is all going to play a factor. even though i got really good results on my last trip, i wouldn't count on it all the time. i would still carry more fuel than i plan on needing.i also carry hand sanitizer for back up fuel and use on winter trips.

[Mitch Chesney]

I know it goes against the UL philosophy but sometimes convenience and boil times are more important. In the process of making a Kovea Spider more efficient, and failing, I've come to the end of the line with an MSR Reactor 1.7L for my winter alpine trips. It's just a no-fuss furnace unaffected by wind and with surprising fuel efficiency – I think Jim measured 9g (0.3oz) fuel per 1L boiled in only 4 minutes… probably 18g (0.6oz) fuel starting from snow. At that rate you save weight on fuel more than a static stove weight. For the size of pot and consistent efficiency of burn it's worth considering.

[Bob Shaver]

The two crazies doing the PCT in winter are using a caldera cone Ti Tri (Ti = titanium, TRI = 3 types of fuel possible, alcohol, esbit, and wood).

http://www.pcta.org/2015/meet-two-guys-winter-thru-hiking-pct-19-incredible-photos-26687/

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Bob,

Alky is my very last choice for winter camping. I'd at least recommend ESBIT for winter and better yet a gassifier wood stove like the Trail Designs Sidewinder with Inferno wood burning insert or a Bushbuddy.

Alcohol is just not a good fuel for winter with its low energy density.

[Bob Gross]

Esbit isn't all that hot, either. If you must use Esbit in winter, you might want to use two tablets together at the same time. I don't think that you have an option like that with alcohol.

–B.G.–

[Nick Gatel]

Have you ever tried to light Esbit in winter with cold hands and windy weather? I have, it isn't fun. No thanks. I'll stick with white gas or canister.

In 3 season I use Esbit almost exclusively.

[Ken Thompson]

Trangia

[Bob Gross]

"Have you ever tried to light Esbit in winter with cold hands and windy weather?"

Nick, nobody claimed that it was easy.

Besides, I think it is easier to light Esbit with a lighter instead of with cold hands.

Sometimes it helps to scrape the edge of an Esbit tablet with your knife, and try to get some loose flakes. Then light the flakes. Sometimes people will pour a couple of drops of alcohol over the Esbit and then light that.

One time I got so frustrated trying to light some Esbit that I took five stormproof matched held together, lit them at once, and then held that to the Esbit. That was a little intense, but I got it done.

–B.G.–

[Nick Gatel]

Yeah, I do the scrape the edge trick — I think it was you who gave me the tip. Even with that, I leave it at home, and use something else (liquid or gas) when doing winter snow trips. It just isn't practical for melting snow.

[jimmer ultralight]

That's what the cross grooves in the top of the 14mm cubes are for- to lay the lit match in.

It has always worked for me.

[Bob Shaver]

If I had to melt snow into water for two or more, I'd certainly be thinking white gas. My go to stove for that is the MSR Dragonfly. That stove is a veritable blow torch, or more like a jet engine. However, I don't like to dine or have a conversation sitting next to a jet engine, so a quiet alcohol stove has its appeal. Often you can find liquid water so you don't have to melt snow, in which case alcohol totally works. My winter camping is usually using a sled to haul gear, so having more volume of fuel is no big deal if the weight is on the sled.

For compact BTUs, low temperatures, lots of snow to melt, and fast boil times, you can't beat white gas. But on my trips alcohol works fine, and in winter the quiet is astounding.

[Richard May]

Being new to esbit the shaving is a good trick to learn. I've used a few droops of sanitizer gel too, it's usually in a pocket so it should light okay… YMWV, I live where a 35F quilt could be used through winter.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

>Use an anodized or non-stick coated aluminum pot. Lighter, cheaper and conducts heat much more evenly.

>Use a good MSR type aluminum windscreen to conserve fuel.

>For ESBIT cooking use a Trail Designs Caldera Cone with a Brian Green design (DIY) ESBIT tab burner to double your burn time per tablet and maximize the trapped heat with the cone design.

>Or use the Trail Designs Ti stoves (Tri-Ti or Sidewinder) with the Inferno wood burning insert and carry only firestarter tabs.

FINALLY, for a fail-safe stove in extreme cold use an MSR Whisperlite Universal and white gas fuel.

[Roger Caffin]

I haven't used an aluminium pot for … many years. My Ti pots work very well.

And I find a good inverted canister stove pretty fail-safe these days. MUCH safer than white gas, and MUCH less smell than kero.

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

"MUCH safer than white gas"

Roger, where is the adventure in that?

–B.G.–

[Dan Yeruski]

The pot, stainless steel foil lid(more durable than aluminum), stainless steel wire pot supprt, aluminum pot support stabilizer, carbon felt ground protector and stainless steel Esbit tray combined total weight is 27 grams.

Foster pot has 2 cup+ capacity. The ridgeline in the center of the "F" is the 2 cup mark. The pot has an aluminum bottom and top rim.

The stove has integrated parts, nothing loose that can get lost.

[David Gardner]

Dan, is the pot lid intended to be under the esbit burner during use, or is that just for the photo?

[Dan Yeruski]

It's just for the photo grouping.

I put this kit together this morning just for the heck of it :-) I'm not an ultralighter.

[Dan Yeruski]

David, this set-up is a little on the heavy side….I'll have to lighten it up a little. I can shave some grams by reducing the esbit tray and using aluminum for the lid. We'll see how that goes.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

"I haven't used an aluminum pot for… many years."

Well Rog, to each his or her own. BUT aluminum conducts heat more rapidly AND evenly than ti. That's why I use it. Faster heating and no center hot spot.

[Bob Moulder]

aluminum conducts heat more rapidly

Now that inspires me to do a graph! :^)

Good thing that Al pots are cheap.

[Dan Yeruski]

Al bowls are better than straight sided pots :-)

Experiments a few years ago told me so ;) More experiments will be forthcoming when my esbit arrives.

[Charley White]

RE how much faster aluminum heats than Ti or Fe–

Ever since my thinking came to a screeching halt on this, I've yet to have an answer knuckle into my head what value it is having one metal over another in speed of conductance when water is slow. In any test over maybe a minute duration, anyway. (& don't say convection, it being just an enhancement to conduction.)

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=103073

Edit to add, re Bob Gross ahead: yes, I'm just talking about heating water.

[Bob Gross]

If you are simply boiling water like a lot of us do, then the type of metal in the cook pot doesn't matter too much. The flame heat will get into the water one way or the other. So, titanium, stainless steel, aluminum… it doesn't matter. If the aluminum is thin, it can be easily damaged. Titanium and stainless, not so much.

OTOH, if you are really trying to cook something, then the metal can make a lot of difference. Titanium will not spread the heat so widely, so it will produce one big hot spot over the flame. Of course that can burn some food types. You can get around that by using a flame spreader made out of an old can lid.

–B.G.–

[Charley White]

My not inconsiderable winter snow melting has run from white gas to multi-wick candle, with wood and esbit and canister in between. I think the big tradeoff is fuss for weight. I spent all of an evening melting snow with my candle stove. There is a huge value in being able to firmly set up a high output stove under a big pot to "set and forget" your water production while you labor over something else lightweight but labor intensive (snow masonry for a trench-&-tarp). That bombproof ease is most appreciated when it is most direly needed.

But here is an anticipated compromise to extend my esbit system (it will want a more fuss-free shelter). All snow melting improves with full attention. The concept is to use my 750 pot to warm water, not melt snow, and pour the warm water over snow placed in my wide mouth nalgene. Create water in the nalgene & then pour it–cold–back into the pot. This will prevent snow-spill from the pot-to-the-flame, and it will keep the flame working to the greatest extent possible on cold water, which will maximize heat transfer. The more time you have hot water sitting over flame waiting to get hotter, the more heat is lost. [Edit: ok that's unlikely to be true. A closely tended pot where you regularly add a little snow to keep the contents slush would be colder. But I think there is a compromise where you could spend work to save weight and use the smaller pot. Hell, I keep wondering about a REALLY small pot you use to generate steam and shoot it into snow-in-a-bottle.]

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