pct thru hike

[M B]

One of my stays put a few pinholes thru my arc blast. Nothing a little cuben tape couldnt fix.

250 miles with a bearikade weekender did some interior damage with a few pinholes but nothing cuben tape couldnt fix.

I dont view packs as "forever" gear. My arc blast has 500 miles on it, and is in almost new shape. It can surely last a couple of major thruhikes with only minor tape repairs with normal care. By then, someone will surely want the latest thing anyway.

Hard objects are the achilles heel of hybrid cuben packs, regardless of mfg. My pack got a 3/4" long slit where the hard upper edge of bearcan vibrated against metal boat during short ferry ride across lake edison. ULFabric like 1.1 nylon would not have fared any better though.

However, it was nothing a little cuben tape couldnt fix.

[Edward Jursek]

Dan – you know a lot about cuben, so I am wondering about the different weights of hybrid cuben on the market. I have 2 Zimmerbuilt packs and Chris, and HMG and perhaps ULA, seem to use beefier hybrid cuben material then Zpacks. I recall the stuff Chris was using is 3.3oz per sq.yd and Zpacks was 2.9oz per sq.yd. Is there a good thread or reference to the different weights of hybrid cuben out there, how they hold up, and who is using what weights? Thanks!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Edward,

As far as I know Cubic Tech makes 3 versions of hybrid cuben. All of them are 1.43oz cuben laminated to a woven polyester face fabric. The three versions are referred to as wov20, wov32 and wov75. These codes refer to polyester face fabrics of 50D, 70D and 150D respectively (I could be slightly off on this, but it's close). The polyesters weigh 1.5oz, 1.9oz and 3.5oz, so add on 1.43oz for the cuben backing and you get 2.9, 3.3 and 4.9oz total weights.

Zpacks uses the 2.9oz version, while ULA uses the 3.3oz stuff. I think HMG was using the 3.3oz stuff, but looking at their website now it seems they are using both the 2.9oz and 4.9oz stuff. Back bottoms and heavy duty packs (i.e. Porter) use the 4.9oz stuff, while smaller packs predominately use the 2.9oz stuff.

I've got several hybrid cuben packs in the house and it's decent stuff, but in my opinion Xpac fabrics are better for packs. Hybrid cuben consists of woven polyester + mylar + spectra fibers + mylar, all glued together in a sandwich. The cuben component (mylar + spectra + mylar) looks good on a spec sheet (high tear strength) but it's not actually that functional in a pack because the spectra isn't woven so it does very little to stop stitch hole elongation and punctures. It does stop tears from expanding, but by the time you're at this point the cuben is a fraying mess anyways. The durability of a pack fabric is largely determined by it's abrasion resistance and puncture/cut resistance, so with hybrid cuben this is almost entirely coming from the polyester face fabric and then the cuben component is mostly there for waterproofing. My complaint here is that using cuben as a waterproof layer is an expensive and relatively heavy way to make a pack waterproof. A single layer of tougher plastic can be both lighter and more durable when faced with internal pack abrasion. With cuben, the inside mylar eventually starts to degrade after heavy use, and then spectra starts fraying everywhere.

Xpac fabrics use a single tougher layer of plastic (0.25mil or 0.5 mil PET) rather than cuben to waterproof the pack. The fabrics come in a wider range of woven face fabrics (30D to 1000D nylon) and can be had with or without an inner woven fabric to protect to plastic. The result is lighter, cheaper fabrics for similar functionality and the option of more durable fabrics. Consider Xpac TX07 vs 3.3oz Hybrid Cuben. Both materials use a 70D woven face fabrics but TX07 waterproofs it with 0.25 mil PET while the hybrid cuben uses 1.43oz cuben. Both materials should be similarly durable, but the TX07 is lighter (2.9oz vs 3.3oz) and the plastic waterproof layer will likely hold up better over the long haul. Plus TX07 is $16/yd instead of $39.

For a durable ultralight pack, XPac X21 (4.4oz/yd) looks great. It's 210D nylon + 0.5 mil PET (double thickness). For a pack seeing a lot of off-trail use then X33 is great (330D + 0.5 mil PET).

[David Ure]

I have used both the 70D and 150D fabrics for packs. The 150D is a completely different animal and the durability has been better than 210D dyneema gridstop that I have used. It has proven to me to be literally bombproof for a pack fabric but may be too heavy for some. Weight difference on a Porter 3400 is about 2.5 oz. This is a custom option that HMG provides and is black in color.

[Ryan Smith]

Unless CT has changed in the last 6 mos, their cuben hybrid is as follows:

-50d polyester face/CT5k.18 liner…2.9oz
-50d polyester face/CT9k.18 liner….3.3oz
-150d polyester face/CT10HBK liner…5.3oz

All are fairly durable, but in my experience will not stand up to the same abrasion as a good 210d nylon. Polyester is just not the best fabric when thats a concern. The new X21 by Dim Poly is the go to fabric for weight, durability and waterproofness IMO. That's not to say that cuben hybrid is poor, I love it and have two packs made from it. I just don't have to worry about abrasion in the Southeast.

Ryan

[David Ure]

Ryan – have you used the 150D version? I have found it worlds better in terms of abrasion resistance. I believe that is what Mchale is now using as well on cuben spec'd packs.

[Ryan Smith]

Dave,

Only a little. I have a buddy that uses an HMG with the 150d and it has held up pretty well honestly. Has had a little stitch elongation but he's carried a ton of weight with it and basically abuses the thing. You're right that the 150d is much, much tougher than the other weights. It's a tough fabric and will handle most anything the average hiker can throw at it. It just has a couple limitations like anything else. I seriously considered upgrading to it a few months ago.

I do love that the Cuben hybrid fabric holds essentially zero water weight. That's why I use it instead of the more common dimension polyant fabrics.

Ryan

[David Ure]

Ryan, I think you hit the nail on the head….stitching through cuben is definitely the weakest link and anyone with these packs should probably inspect where the shoulder straps meet the main bag (and belt) periodically. No failures yet for me but I agree that there is definitely some stress in those areas.

[Simon Kenton]

Dan,

Thanks for that write up. It's nice to see the differences between (all) the fabrics spelled out so clearly.

[Edward Jursek]

Dan – Thanks for the detailed information re: different weights of hybrid cuben. The lighter x-pac stuff looks very interesting. If the weight is competitive with hybrid cuben and it so much cheaper, why isn't it being used more I wonder? Are there limitations with it? I have always thought x-pac was much heavier.

[Anja Butera]

Nvm

[Anja Butera]

delete

[Simon Kenton]

Have you received your new pack from Zimmerbuilt? Would love to see pictures

[Anja Butera]

yeah sure, im very pleased with it. Its pretty much an arc blast with heavier duty hybrid cuben, and xpac pockets and base. the green color is less shiny and more olive in person. Very comfortable and stylish pack.

[Anja Butera]

[Simon Kenton]

Looks great! Did you opt for framed or frameless?

[Anja Butera]

I had him include a removable U stay, which I think I'll be using a lot

[Simon Kenton]

Very nice, seems similar to an Ohm to me. What is the weight with everything included?

[Anja Butera]

25oz with the stay. not the lightest but plenty comfortable with loads up to 30 pounds

[Simon Kenton]

Thats a good weight! Nice pack and thanks for sharing the details

[Anja Butera]

Hey guys, looking for opinions about the GG 1/8th thinlight pad. Do you think this would provide adequate puncture resistance in the desert for my neoair? Would be great if it did, so light and small

[David Thomas]

Just brainstorming here, but how about a Z Lite in the desert (can't puncture that which doesn't hold air)? And put your NeoAir in a re-supply box once after the desert.

[Anja Butera]

Yeah definitely the logical approach. I'd just love to be able to use the neoair in the desert. I own a ridgerest and am a side sleeper with bony hips. suppose i could force myself to sleep on my back

[Matthew Stenger]

Switched to what?

I have seen you post about this tent several times and semi-regret selling mine that I bought used and resold without using but this is the first I have seen you say that you had to switch it out.

[Matthew Stenger]

I don't have dessert experience but would a tyvek groundsheet provide adequate protection for a x-lite?

[Author]

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