Looking for New Product Feedback- Camp Chairs

[Ron Rod]

Hi Guys!
I have been toying around with the design of a superlight camp chair for some time now.

I know, I know…rocks and logs work great for many of you, and if thats the case, feel free to move onto the next thread. But some folks are willing to carry a lightweight luxury item like this if the comfort benefit is high enough.

I’ve come up with a carbon fiber legged camp stool that weighs right around 6 ounces. It works well for me and my needs. I am considering ordering up some more materials so that I can offer these for sale. I figured that before I made any kind of investment, I should reach out and see if there is actually any interest.

There’s dozens of different combinations that I can create, but here are the ones I am considering right now:

5.75 oz – 20” carbon legs (seat height ~16” off the ground)
6.5 oz – 24” carbon legs (Seat height ~18.5” off the ground)
7.75 oz – 26”aluminum legs (Seat height ~20” off the ground)

These weights are based on a TX07 seat with heavier reinforcements. I mocked one up in cuben, and the weight savings is not significant enough to justify the difference in price.

I’ve also kicked around a few protos of a square shaped seat platform. The weight does go up a fair bit on those though.

A couple of questions for you all:

1. Do you have a preference for a square seat versus a triangle seat (say for now it is a 2 ounce increase for the 4 legged stool)?
2. I have some ideas for creating a chair with a back, but it will weigh considerably more (ballpark 15 ounces). Does that interest you more than the 3 or 4 legged stool?
3. Do you carry a chair now, and if so which one?

Please feel free to answer here, or if you want you can PM me here, or email me direct at [email protected].

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers,
Ron

Here's a quick photo:

[David Thomas]

Personally, I've gone from those common, steel-framed camp chairs (the ones with arm rests and cup holders) to more minimal, commercially available, aluminum-framed chairs with backs at about $20 for use around town, car camping and on power-boat-supported trips.

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Woodsman-II-Chair/dp/B00CHBXJ4O/ref=pd_sim_sg_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1VWT5EV08GW06EP564FS

I have pondered something exactly what you propose – aluminum-framed, tripod configuration for use on backpacking and canoeing trips.

For any backpacking use and when going to the expense of carbon fiber, I'd only be looking at the tripod version, not the 4-sided version.

When I'm on my own, I'm doing mileage and not sitting around in camp. But if I'm with a larger group and spending more time in camp, yes, I'd consider 1/2 pound for a comfortable seat. I would also be more likely to bring along a light and compact for things like shore fishing and clamming.

[Bill Reynolds]

On some shorter trips I carry a Slinglight. I figure if I'm carrying a luxury item like a chair it should have a back. I also have the light thermarest chair kit but haven't used it very much. I would think you should offer a stool and a chair. The three legged with a back would be my vote.

[todd]

The two lighter ones sound interesting.

Just curious, why no aluminum on the shorter ones?

The price, of course, will influence my decision.

[Ron Rod]

Thanks for the initial insights. I hope to hear from more of you.

Overall, it sounds like the lighter the better (big shocker there!).

Carbon certainly doesn't come cheap, and neither does good aluminum. I am working to get better pricing on all the materials, but initially retail pricing looks like ~$75 for the aluminum 3 leg stool and ~$92 for the carbon version. Those prices would include shipping. Im doing my best to source USA made materials, and the seat portion certainly would be sewn in Colorado.

@Todd- I could certainly make a shorter aluminum version. I was just listing some of the combinations. The weight would likely reduce about .75 ounces.

Cheers,
Ron

[Rick M]

del

[Bob Gross]

No load rating?

–B.G.–

[Ron Rod]

We haven't broken one of the carbon chairs yet, but we honestly we havent pushed the chairs to the max either. There is very little deflection in the carbon with 185lb (~85kg), even when I rock onto one or two legs.

As the design evolves, I will push a few of the chairs to failure. I'd like to be able to have a load rating of 250-300 pounds ideally. As there is no standard test for this (static loads versus dynamic loads are hugely different), I will have to get creative. If there is need for a higher rating, I can certainly increase the material spec to create a more burly (albeit heavier) option. In this case, I would offer multiple options from which customers can pick their chair based on their needs.

[Ross Bleakney]

I don't know if you have played around with the idea, but a chair that wasn't too heavy, was a recliner style, and used trekking poles would be really nice. I know a lot of people use their poles to support their tent (or tarp) but I think a chair like that would go along with carrying extra tent poles. I have a light tarp tent, but when I am going for a short "base camp" type trip (two or more nights in the same place) I carry two ounce carbon fiber tent poles, instead of using my trekking poles. In that case, a recliner type chair would be really nice. I wouldn't mind reassembling it every night, unlike pulling out and putting in the trekking poles in my tent. I don't have a design in mind, but that is why I am only commenting, not designing :). My guess is you could create something with two trekking poles and a few short poles and it would be under half a pound (but like I said, what do I know).

[Jeffs Eleven]

Franco made that one chair from his poles and paracord. Or some string. Twine. Whatever…

Ok really it was a seatback and he sat on the ground but it looked comfortable and may give you some ideas.

I believe, for me anyway, that the back is the important part, my back sucks and I gotta lean on something.

Maybe Anna will find that thread and link it…

[Kimberly Wersal]

I always carry a chair. It is my favorite luxury item (an Alite Monarch Butterfly chair). For me, having a chair back is essential– I've never found a stool very comfortable– I would just a soon just sit on a stump or the ground. A lighter version of something like the Alite (18 oz.) would be of considerable interest to me and seems doable since the Alite uses a pretty heavy fabric.

Good luck with your project!

[JCH]

First, I applaud your efforts. A 6oz camp stool might have a significant audience.

IMO there is a big difference between a camp chair (has a back) and a camp stool (what you have shown). At 6'1', 220 lbs I have absolutely no use for a stool. If I want to sit hunched over I'll use a log or roll up my TR XLite inside my Schnozzel (dual use donchaknow).

A camp chair with a back is a beautiful thing *if* it is not too close to the ground (I'm looking at you Alite). When I'm willing to schlep a chair, it's a Helinox Chair One (30oz)…let the scoffing begin. Clearly, I make do without unless the terrain is flat and the distances mild.

If someone could create a chair, with a back, whose seat was at least 12" off the ground, could withstand 250 lbs., weighed (significantly) less than 30 oz and cost less than $100, I would be their first customer.

Excuse my while I return to searching eBay for Unicorn horn.

[Kevin Babione]

I'd love to buy one of your chairs! I had a 13.6 ounce Pack Stool that died on me when I was on a trip this past May. I'm a big guy (270 lbs) and the stool had performed perfectly on multiple trips. On this trip one of the legs suddenly sank into the dirt/mud and that put too much pressure on the remaining two legs.

I went to order a replacement and they're out of stock. I'm happy to spend the money on a stool – I find that I really am not comfortable for long around camp without one.

[Ken Thompson]

Looks like the stool Doug had made a while back. If you search carbon fiber stool in the BPL search you will see that this idea/business concept has surfaced a few times over the years. Maybe this time something will actually happen.

[JP]

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[Michael Gunderloy]

If I can ever sit down again, I'd probably be interested in the 24" carbon version. I've been known to carry an Alite on hikes in the past.

I suspect the biggest issue might be keeping those legs from sinking into the ground. On any sort of soft soil I wonder if those end caps will do the job…and how much weight penalty they add.

[Dave Heiss]

I have a tripod chair with 22" legs that I bought at Costco many, many years ago. It weighs exactly 1 pound, and it goes with me on all my trips. At 6'2" I wouldn't want anything shorter, and I absolutely love having a chair like this. Sun, shade, views, avoiding campfire smoke… with a chair you can move to wherever you want to be. No sitting on the ground for me – that's for younger folks with better knees.

I've never missed having a backrest, but sometimes I've been known to set it next to a tree in order to use the trunk as a backrest. I would definitely be interested in buying a 6.5 oz carbon fiber tripod chair. I've toyed with building my own, as others have here, but I never seem to have the time.

[Bill Law]

1. Triangular seat for me. Seems square would put the ends poking into my legs, or, be less stable.

2. No. I'm happy without a seat back.

3. I carry a 14.1oz stool with 22" aluminum legs. Generic from REI outlet, probably.

Those carbon fiber legs look a bit skinnier and might sink into the ground too much. Maybe put another seat-like triangle of nylon at the bottom, too?

Price is the biggest obstacle. $75 to save 8 oz. isn't bad, though.

Maybe I could buy 2 and carry the second to rent out to jealous hiking partners to recoup the cost. They are always "borrowing" this piece of gear if I get up for too long.

[Brian Mix]

I carry an Alite Monarch or Mayfly on my shorter hikes where I'm not too worried about weight carried. For me it's gotta have a comfy backrest- that's the only reason I carry one at all.

[Ron Rod]

Great, Thanks for the input, please keep it coming!

I think that if I do pursue this, I would have a few different models on offer. As easy as adding a back seems, it's actually proven quite tough to do, at least while keeping the weight low.

Currently the tubes have feet that measure 1" in diameter. They are hefty, but they help a lot with the sinking. In my experience, sinking in soft ground is hard to avoid with many chair designs. There is definitely a weight/bulk trade off with the feet. Running a fabric platform across the bottom is something I experimented with. Durability quickly became an issue.

Does anybody have the weight of the Alite Fabric Seat? Just the seat, not the poles.

[Andrew F]

Not as much stool love on this thread as I expected. My wife has one of these REI stools:

…and while it's not something I would personally bring backpacking, I use it car camping all the time, and it's way better than no chair. Sure, it's not as comfortable as a full camp chair, but it's close. I could see a lot of people buying one of those if it was 6oz and <$75.

[Jesse Anderson]

I'll try to weigh the seat of my Alite Monarch tonight when I get home from work.

I too am in the camp of those who want a seat back. After carrying a pack all day I want to rest my back, not have it hunched over on a stool.

I've thought about MYOGing a new seat for my Alite out of lighter materials as I think it's pretty overbuilt. A commercially available UL seat for Alite chairs would be awesome. I imagine something made from a UL uncoated nylon could knock off a bit of bulk and a couple of ounces or more from the weight.

[BlackHatGuy]

"Looks like the stool Doug had made a while back."

Chris Zimmer made the seat for me, I got the cuben poles from Josh at Ruta Locura and put it together. Mine weighed a bit over 5 oz. Diana V has it now.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=48893

[Matt Dirksen]

In the spirit of wanting a chair with a back, and multi-use…

I'd personally be intrigued with a chair kit which could make creative use of two trekking poles. When I most desire to sit in a chair, I have usually stopped hiking. Now I know, most tents & tarps desire the use of the poles as well, so If I really wanted to bring along extra carbon poles for a chair, I could then choose to only as needed. Or, I suspect the tent could wait a little.

Regardless, a 6oz chair would be very awesome. Thanks for your efforts on this.

[Joshua Abel]

"If someone could create a chair, with a back, whose seat was at least 12" off the ground, could withstand 250 lbs., weighed (significantly) less than 30 oz and cost less than $100, I would be their first customer."

My REI Flex Lite comes in at 26oz (744g).

I myself see no purpose in a stool, I find them very uncomfortable and I may as well be sitting on a log if I'm going to use a stool.

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