The best clothing combinations for backpacking or hiking?

[Richard Nisley]

EJ – The most common Power Stretch hard-face option is #7767 (60% polyester, 30% nylon, and 10% Lycra) versus the most common soft-face option # 7622 (94% Polyester & 6% Lycra). I only use the soft-face version for the following reasons:

1. The soft-face stretch is 100% width and 100% length versus only 60% width and 60% length for the hard-face.
2. The soft-face clo is .975 versus .953 for the hard face.
3. The soft-face air permeability is better (210) versus the hard-face (163).
4. I already carry a windshirt and it addresses the abrasion resistance and wind blocking requirements when needed.

I have tested the #7774 Wind Block version but not the Wind Pro. I only use my Wind Block for around-the-city wear. The clo is great at 1.275 but it is very heavy at 9.9 oz per yd. In addition the integral wind proof membrane is redundant with the function of my windshirt.

[Ethan A.]

By Hardface, I'm not referring to a power stretch mix with nylon on the outside, but to a new material from Polartec which puts a light coating (urethane?) on the outside of the power stretch or wind pro fleece.
http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/843

How does Polartec Wind Pro rate in your measurements versus Power Stretch and Power Dry? Light Wind Pro garments can work very well over a fairly wide range.

I stay away from any type of wind blocking fleece for active use. Just too hot and not breathable enough. Around town, yes. But even around town I find them hot. Plus I always carry a highly breathable wind shell (Houdini) or in winter, an excellent light Patagonia hooded softshell jacket. I currently use the Arcteryx Wind Pro with Hardface hoody for around town and travel, for which it's well suited. The Hardface garments seem to give up a little loft/warmth for the Hardface coating.

I know you carry a wind shell as well, but I personally prefer the power stretch blend that includes nylon near the surface (though again this is not called Hardface, which is another Polartec product). The surface nylon not only makes the garment more durable, but it adds a little wind resistance, which means it can be used longer before having to throw on a wind shell. I run and x-country ski in this type of power stretch top and bottom in winter. Only when it is very windy and very cold I throw on my wind shell or light softshell and a more wind blocking tight. I find the stretch in this type of power stretch more than sufficient for active sports. If you are only giving up .022 clo, that's not a bad trade off for more wind resistance and wider use range.

I find my Houdini excellent overall, but I don't think it would stand up to a lot of abrasion and I try to be careful with it. My light winter softshell is much more durable.

[Brett .]

EJ, Chris, Richard; thanks for the leads. The total cost of about $149 from REI is just too much considering I have many fleece jackets already. I had it in my cart but chickened out. I'll consider it again in the Fall. I do have a shadow hoodie on order which might suffice.
Interestingly, I noticed REI now has their own "REI Hoodie" in polyester fleece, but the hood looks saggy, like gang-wear, not like the technical balaclava syle hood on the R1.

[Ethan A.]

Hi Brett,

I'm right there with you. I wouldn't have picked mine up if:

a) I wasn't selling a regular zip top R1 from a few years back I haven't used much and a few other items now. Surprisingly used Patagonia items hold their value ridiculously well, even taking on a vintage value. I have bought used Patagonia items on eBay that I have sold for the same price or more a year or more later.

b) I didn't already have a gift certificate from a return from last year.

I keep a list, and any new piece of gear, I always have to justify the use AND sell the item it replaces before I can let myself make the purchase. I also have been fortunate to be able to barter with some smaller gear shops.

The most impressive thing about the R1 Hoody is the fit. Wearing the hoody around town will make you look like a Special Forces sperm right out of Woody Allen's Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask; but it is a very comfortable and thermally efficient design.

[Ethan A.]

What is the Shadow Hoody? What is it made of and who makes it?

[Jaiden .]

Smartwool, Merino.

[Ethan A.]

Brett, Jaiden,
Ah, yes. I thought they stopped making the Shadow Hoody. I was looking for it a while back but it was out of production, and it doesn't show on their website. Where can you get it now? And is it unisex, or is there also a women's version?

[Eric Noble]

Smartwool Shadow Hoody is made of merino wool. Check out the reader reviews, including mine.

[Richard Nisley]

The last time I checked, 8/27/07, you could still have a Smartwool dealer order the now discontinued male version Smartwool hoody from the US Smartwool wholesale warehouse. The only color combination in the warehouse is Driftwood / Brick (very nice looking IMO). The following is the contact I used and had delivery within one week of my phone order.

BAP!
Chris Daniels
PO Box 772133
735 Oak St.
Steamboat Springs, Co 80487
970-879-7507
[email protected]

[Richard Nisley]

Brett – For the widest backpacking thermal comfort regulation, in cool to cold weather, a form fitting hoody base layer and windshirt is optimal. For a fleece based option, only a Power Dry or Power Stretch hoody works well for this application.

[Ethan A.]

Thanks Richard
How does the Smartwool Shadow compare with a power dry or power stretch option with a balaclava hood? I remember it was supposed to be light, maybe 9-12 ounces.

[Richard Nisley]

EJ – My size L is ~ 12.5 ounces and is very good looking. One the other hand, the hood and chin area are poorly cut and baggy for my XL sized head. It is about .045" loft versus .080" for the Power Dry R1 but only ~.5 oz lighter.

[Roger B]

Richard a slightly different question does the windshirt also require a hood for optimal performance?

[Richard Nisley]

Roger – Yes. All of your skin, except for your head and neck have blood vessels that constrict when you are cold and dilate when you are warm to regulate your body temperature. In order to not vary the blood supply to your brain, the head and neck blood vessels always stay the same size.

When you are backpacking, you will need to frequently adjust your thermal insulation up or down to stay in thermal balance. This occurs as you change your MET level, the terrain changes, or the effective environmental temperature changes. A zippered and hooded base layer / windshirt combination best allows quick broad spectrum thermal neutrality. Of course if the quick part is not a requirement, more conventional clothing like gloves, balaclavas and hats can be used in place of hooded base layers and windshirts. These separate options normally have less thermo neutral granularity, weigh more, and take more time to remove from or put back in your pack.

[Roger B]

Thanks Richard

I am one of those who has a smartwool hoody and a windshirt with a hood so I should take a closer look at my gear as I may not need to pack the balaclava or the possum fur hat under certain conditions.

I appreciate your work it is very comprehensive as well as informative, hopefully BPL will get you to write an article on MET, clo and SUL backpacking in the near future.

[Ethan A.]

Richard, thanks again for the weight on the Smartwool Hoody. Given the lower warmth for the weight, it seems more like a replacement for a light to mid-layer long sleeve base layer, not a midlayer replacement.

Roger, I never leave my 2 oz. Hind Balaclava behind – it's made some miserable days very comfortable. It's amazing how much heat you lose through your head. This Balaclava is very thin power stretch and rolls or folds down very small.

[Roger B]

I would never leave my possum fur hat behind, but I may consider changing my smart wool hoody for a power stretch one.

[Christopher Plesko]

I've got the men's and women's smartwool hoodies. The women's is a better base layer if you can find one that fits you. That being said I wear my Shadow all the time on day trips but it wouldn't make the "expedition cut." That's why I've got an R1 on order. Got to see if it's better. Tight fitting hoods are a must to leave behind the balaclava.

Hooded base layer, hooded windshirt or rain jacket and hooded parka are my core upper body clothing items. I rarely bring more than that.

[Ethan A.]

OK, got the info on the Cloudveil Run Don't Walk power stretch hoody from Matt at Cloudveil. Seems like it's very close to the R1 except for the hood, which is not a snug fitting balaclava. Also looks like the Cloudveil body is not as long as the R1. The R1 Hoody offers better face coverage (chin, sides of cheeks and forehead). I'd guess the Cloudveil is a little more wind resistant than the Patagonia R1.

"I have most of the info you were looking for I hope this helps out.

1. The RDW hoodie has a low profile hood that should fit somewhat snug but it does not have a super technical fit.

2. Short of physically weighing a large hoodie, there is no information available. My best guess would be around 11-12oz.

3. The weight in oz/yrd2 is 6.8

4. We have a full selection of RDW gear at our Flagship store here in Jackson (307) 739-3930

Some of our dealers have not received the gear yet so it is best to call a few places in your area by going through the dealer locator on our website.

The specs of the RDW PowerStretch are:

88% poly 12% spandex

Surface is: Face – Smooth Jersey, back – Velour

MVTR (Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate) test: ASTM E96 = 596 g/m2/24hours

Shrinkage result after three times wash and dry at 120º F is 2% length and 4% width.

Hope this helps, thanks for supporting Cloudveil

Cheers,

Matt"

[Bill B]

I'm about to return 2 R1's, size small to Patagonia. They didn't fit. They still have the tags. Given the scarcity of R1's, I thought I'd offer them here before returning them. Retail price ($130)+ shipping. Paypal only. If there in no interest by Fri. I'll just return them.

[Christopher Plesko]

What size are you? I've been debating between a small and a medium.

[Ethan A.]

Hi Richard,

How do Rab Vapour-Rise garments and Marmot DriClime fair in your calculations? I've always thought the Rab Vapour-Rise jacket would be handy for cold winter use, but it must be less versatile by nature because the wind layer is part of the garment. How does it compare with other materials for warmth? The closest I've ever owned was a Marmot DriClime windshirt (which was a little lighter than the jacket below and which I got rid of once I got a separate wind shell).

http://www.rab.uk.com/products_vr_vrjacket.html

http://marmot.com/catalog/fall_2007/10/15/26/node/716

[Richard Nisley]

EJ – I have a DriClime that I use for spring skiing. Warmth wise it is equivalent to a light windshirt with a Polartec 100 under it for insulation. As you pointed out, the main issue for backpacking is the lack of granularity. Secondarily, the nylon windbreaker is constructed using very durable but heavy large denier nylon.

[Ethan A.]

Do you know if the Rab Vapour-Rise is much different than the DriClime? It's clearly heavier than the DriClime jacket, but the Driclime doesn't come with a hood. I've read very good things about it for winter use in this forum.

In Winter I typically replace my wind shell with a Patagonia Ready Mix softshell, which is light, incredibly breathable, durable and water- and wind-resistant.

[Joshua Mitchell]

Mostly Merino hoody that Smartwool used to make… it's been discontinued for a while.

I got a 2007 Icebreaker Nomad (390gm/m2 Merino) at a steep discount. It seems rather nice, close fitting hood, thumb loops… but I can't say I would have purchased it if it had been full price.

[Author]

Posts